Not happy about moving to the area (Buffalo, Clarence: crime, student loan)

[ajacques]

Originally Posted by JustinH

The financial giant that I currently work for is expanding operations here in Buffalo, and closing up shop in LA, and other high cost areas. The CEO came in and touted to all of us how "cost effective" that Buffalo was. I translated that to people will work for nothing here. So the two areas that they are expanding is Buffalo, and India. They don't offer people real jobs. I am one of the lucky ones, to be a corporate employee. Most of the hiring at my company in Buffalo is $10.50 per hour, no benefits, no insurance, nothing. You work for a temporary agency. If you get sick, or want to take a vacation, you are replaced, because there are tons of people clawing to get a over $10 per hour job.

Its sad. The people who take these $10.50 per hour jobs with no benefits are not idiots for the most part. Many graduated from UB, Buffalo State, and other Colleges. Some have Bachelors, some have Masters degrees, and are swimming in student loan debt.

How many years of that life can a person take before they move away?

Is it really that bad? I work in Service of Process (process server coordinator) here in florida for $13.50p/h. Hell I made $10p/h just working at CVS; granted I was a pharmacy tech. I know Buffalo is having a hard time but I assumed pay was a tiny better than Florida. I'll be moving to buffalo just with an A.A. and $45,000 in student loans. But its still gotta be better than here.

[Canerican]

Hey, I happen to know of both those jobs very well. My sister is a pharm tech, and I happen to know some SP people very well.

Pharm tech around here makes about $8 an hour, maybe $9 if you are lucky. SP coordinators will average in at around $9 or $10.

It's supply and demand. Lots of people want to work, but jobs aren't plentiful, the wage goes down.

----

Why would you choose Buffalo. Of all the places... Is it just because of your life situation? There are plenty of so-called gay friendly cities, like Philadelphia, or Columbus with better economies. Heck, on the Lexington board they talk about some gay pride parade (I thought only San Francisco and Montreal had those).

[Jonnno]

To the O. P.,

Being forced to move somewhere you already have decided is not for you is a terrible way to start a marriage. You will have enough issues to deal with without having that stress. Honestly, Buffalo is not that bad of a place but if you don't have an open mind about the move you will be miserable (and so will your fiance / husband). I know. I lived it. My advice is don't do it.

[ajacques]

Originally Posted by Canerican

Hey, I happen to know of both those jobs very well. My sister is a pharm tech, and I happen to know some SP people very well.

Pharm tech around here makes about $8 an hour, maybe $9 if you are lucky. SP coordinators will average in at around $9 or $10.

It's supply and demand. Lots of people want to work, but jobs aren't plentiful, the wage goes down.

----

Why would you choose Buffalo. Of all the places... Is it just because of your life situation? There are plenty of so-called gay friendly cities, like Philadelphia, or Columbus with better economies. Heck, on the Lexington board they talk about some gay pride parade (I thought only San Francisco and Montreal had those).

I visited philly and liked it very much unfortunatly the cost of housing there is way out of my price range - hence why I won't be living in NYC. You can forget Cali- their ecomony (& weather simular to florida) makes Buffalo seem like the holy grail. Trust me I cried when I found out it just wasn't financially feasable to move to Massachussettes (my first pick. no wait canada was my first pick but thats even more of an impossibility). Buffalo end up with most points on my scale:

(out of 10)
City Life: 5
Gay Friendly 6
Frethought/atheists: 6
Lack of Racism: 5
Low Cost of Living: 9
Teaching Jobs: 5
Clerical Jobs: 5
Theatre/Cultural Entertainment: 4
Weather: 6
A law school that is not exorbinatly expensive and has a good rep that I actually have a chance of getting into: 10

[njsocks]

Originally Posted by BuffaloTransplant

The OP obviuosly does not want to live here.

Anyone coming from Boston and Atlanta ( both noted) is used to a big city and we aren't. We are small anbd considerate. I will take that anyday.

Rents are cheaper here and if you take the time, you can easily find a 2-3 BR house for a low rent. A flat is less. You won't get a pool or 2-3 bathrooms, you will get an decent house. (One of my 2 daughters has a great 2BR in S. Buffalo for $450; the other owns her house). Both have radiators and not forced air, so no a/c. Our house has forced air and we have a/c. It's usefulness? Filtering air in high pollen situations!

The OP has kids. Fine, fine a district you want and go look there. Unless you pick the pricy suburbs, you won't have any problem here for anything.

I have a feeling the OP wants a quaint cobblestone area of townhomes which are renovated or huge expanses of new condos.... and the latter can be gotten in the suburbs.

Don't knock the area until you come and spend sometime. I came over 40 years ago and never left. I came from a high population dense area near NYC and now live where we have few people on the road. Not street, road. 6+ miles to any town. Wouldn't have it any other way.

If you hate the place, don't come.

Exactly Buffalo!!! You get reps!! I graduated from SUNYAB too and moved because my fiance was making 4x what I was at the time...so that is why I moved..I lived there for 33 years! I will take UB tuition over ridiculously INFLATED NJ colleges anyday!!!! You get a shack here for 300k!! It really stinks!

I have to tell you that is where some of the NICEST, down to Earth people live in the US!!! There's no place like home.........(clicking my heels!)

[jblake78728]

Originally Posted by ajacques

I visited philly and liked it very much unfortunatly the cost of housing there is way out of my price range - hence why I won't be living in NYC. You can forget Cali- their ecomony (& weather simular to florida) makes Buffalo seem like the holy grail. Trust me I cried when I found out it just wasn't financially feasable to move to Massachussettes (my first pick. no wait canada was my first pick but thats even more of an impossibility). Buffalo end up with most points on my scale:

(out of 10)
City Life: 5
Gay Friendly 6
Frethought/atheists: 6
Lack of Racism: 5
Low Cost of Living: 9
Teaching Jobs: 5
Clerical Jobs: 5
Theatre/Cultural Entertainment: 4
Weather: 6
A law school that is not exorbinatly expensive and has a good rep that I actually have a chance of getting into: 10

I think it is great to see someone who did their own research & made a decision based on what they want. Too many people don't even consider Buffalo because many people do nothing but run the city into the ground & skip the good things the city/area has to offer (don't get me wrong, a lot of Canerican's criticisms are valid but he has a way to make things seem much worse than they are at times .... he also looks at the world through conservative tinted glasses so any liberal city is pretty much Babylon to him .... which doesn't make him wrong but it also doesn't mean everyone is going to have the same experience he has had). Yes, taxes here are high (but realistically property taxes are on par with the rest of the Northeast/New England & housing is much cheaper .... rural PA is about the only exception). Contrary to what some might say there are jobs to be had especially if you have training, an education or a lot of experience in a specific field. A college education in this state (once you establish citizenship) is unbelievably cheap when compared to neighboring states.


I was looking for a city in the Northeast/Mid Atlantic to live in but one that had water, ski areas & wilderness areas close enough that it wouldn't be a big deal to do all those things. The Buffalo area fit this description & the fact that it is much cheaper than most of the other cities in the region was a huge selling point. Philly, Baltimore, Boston & NYC are all fantastic cities but if you can't afford to do anything but pay your bills what is the sense of living there?

[Canerican]

Yes, taxes here are high (but realistically property taxes are on par with the rest of the Northeast/New England & housing is much cheaper

Actually, no, property taxes are the seventh-highest in the country, Niagara county is #1. And if you look at many of the other high property tax counties, they are in states with no income tax. Not to mention New York's income tax is now the highest in the country (it was second until recently), the sales tax is about average, but slightly higher than average. Not to mention the crazy fees that we have here, which are a form of tax. You want a driver's license? It'll cost you more here than anywhere else. The Buffalo News had a story last year on the total taxes by county, Erie is #4 in the entire country. You cannot possibly spin that into saying that we are remotely in line with the rest of the country, even the region.

Again, if you had the choice of living in a place with low taxes, but expensive housing, you should always go for the low tax area. When you pay taxes you get nothing in return, at least if you paid $300,000 for your home, you have a $300,000 home. If you paid $300,000 for the home, and $1500 per year in taxes in say, Houston, or $200,000 and $4000 a year in taxes in Buffalo, after less than 30 years you would have paid more in taxes, and the home cost in Buffalo than taxes and the home cost in Houston, but in Houston you have a $300,000 house, in Buffalo you still have a $200,000 house, but you paid more for it.

And this idea that "Buffalo is so cheap for housing." Sure, when you compare cities, Buffalo has $5000 houses. But would you really want to live in one? Most people go for the suburbs and probably pay about $150,000, but there are plenty of cities where you could spend $250,000 and get a new home, not to mention that average wages will be more there, and of course, taxes will be lower.

In all honesty from a fiscal standpoint, Buffalo makes no sense. You could make an argument that it is good for other reasons, but if you want to be monetarily successful, Buffalo isn't the place.

The Tax Foundation - Property Taxes on Owner-Occupied Housing by County, 2007, Ranked by Taxes as Percentage of Home Value

A college education in this state (once you establish citizenship) is unbelievably cheap when compared to neighboring states.

I would agree, as long as it's a SUNY school. There are some other states with fairly cheap tuition too though, the UT and UA systems are are both top notch and very affordable.

[jblake78728]

You must have a reading comprehension issue because I never said the rest of the country I said the Northeast/New England (as it is obvious that the poster was looking to relocate to NY, Mass, Philly ... not Texas). It's no great secret that the south is dirt cheap, some of us have no great desire to ever live in the south again so it's not an option for all of us. Look at property tax $$$$'s not rates as the houses in NJ, NH, Mass, Conn are much more than they are in WNY, then come back with your spin. Property tax rates are cheaper in suburban Philly & Baltimore but when you have to pay 300K for a decent house you're still paying the same tax dollars as you would here on a 200K house. The difference is that you just paid $300K for a $175 - 200K house because it is in suburban Philly (and if it is on the Jersey side of the river then you're really getting the shaft ..... median tax in Camden is $5300) ....... so where exactly is the savings? You can get a nice house in & around Buffalo (and most of upstate NY) for $100 - 150K (well maybe not nice to you since you love to talk about 400 thousand dollar homes but nice to the rest of us who aren't millionaires). This just isn't true in the rest of the Northeast (outside of rural PA) and it's definitely not true in Philly or Baltimore. I currently rent but if I decided to buy the house I'm renting my taxes would be under $2500/year. I live 2 blocks off Lake Erie in a very quiet & safe neighborhood. I'm sure I could do better if I wanted to live in Bradford, PA but I like this area & I don't find that amount to be excessive.


Texas is cheap, no doubt about it & I never said it wasn't (though property taxes in most of Texas are up there with NY). If you like 5+ months of 100 degree weather, rattlesnakes & scorpions it is a fantastic place. Personally, I like snow & winter sports too much to ever live in the south again.



UT as in University of Texas system is very affordable for residents (at least it was when I attended in the early 90's) ......... though they have since passed the "Top 10 Rule" which can make admissions very tough if you were not in the top 10% of your high school graduating class. I also don't know what this has to do with someone who is looking to move to Boston, Philly or Buffalo? SUNY is much more affordable than Penn State, Temple & Villanova ....... same with the schools in & around Boston.

[jblake78728]

Originally Posted by Canerican

Again, if you had the choice of living in a place with low taxes, but expensive housing, you should always go for the low tax area. When you pay taxes you get nothing in return, at least if you paid $300,000 for your home, you have a $300,000 home. If you paid $300,000 for the home, and $1500 per year in taxes in say, Houston, or $200,000 and $4000 a year in taxes in Buffalo, after less than 30 years you would have paid more in taxes, and the home cost in Buffalo than taxes and the home cost in Houston, but in Houston you have a $300,000 house, in Buffalo you still have a $200,000 house, but you paid more for it.

The Tax Foundation - Property Taxes on Owner-Occupied Housing by County, 2007, Ranked by Taxes as Percentage of Home Value

The problem with this is that your math doesn't add up (by your own link). Harris County (which is the home to Houston) has a 2.2% tax as % of housing rate (Erie is .3% higher) & Fort Bend County (suburban Houston) is 2.5% ...... so I'm not real sure how you expect to pay $1500 in taxes on a 300K home in Houston while paying $4000 on a $200K house in Buffalo when the tax % is very similar????? I guess you could always move out to Orange County if you don't mind hurricanes & the smell of oil refineries.

[Canerican]

1) I was just making an example, I never actually looked at the numbers for the city, maybe I could have said Florence... Houston was a bad example.

2) ERIE COUNTY IS the 4th highest as a percentage of taxes paid by median house value. There are literally only 3 worse places than here for taxes, so you could go basically anywhere else, even in the Northeast, and pay less taxes.

You make it sound like throwing your money at the government (who proceeds to throw it at welfare lowlifes) is a good ROI since you paid $150,000 for your house here.

I have no need to win some stupid internet argument though. It's already been done by the 2000 people who continue leaving Buffalo each and every year. Keep telling yourself that there is nothing wrong, when in reality people are voting with their feet and leaving this place for greener pastures (oh, and another hint, they aren't coming back until your old-fashioned tax and spend thinking dies off)

People don't want to pay for welfare, I am sick of it. I have no use to pay for your foodstamps or whatnot. If you want money, do like me and work hard and get a job, if not, I have no pity on someone who doesn't feel like getting a job and ends up homeless.

This forum just makes me happier each day that I am one day closer for leaving Buffalo for good...