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I am a DC native and the congestion and rat race are killing me. I have visited upstate New York in both winter and summer and fell in love with the area, specifically the Rochester area. There are some graduate programs that I am interested in Albany, Syracuse and Buffalo (though not in Rochester ) Are these areas comparable to Rochester? The cost of living seemed very reasonable in Rochester - how do the other areas compare? Since you can't even get a townhouse for less than $300K anywhere within 30 miles of DC, nor can you rent very many apartments for less than $1,000 for a one bedroom (an efficiency in the city), anything seems better to me. I am definitely looking for a slower pace and better quality of life. Am I looking in the right areas?
Womyn's Studies? I am trying to think of a graduate program that Rochester doesn't have that the other three cities have... Law School... that's it you want to be a lawyer, eh?
Here is my opinion (in order from E to W): Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse & Albany are all basically the same cities in terms of weather, architecture, economy, etc. Somebody is going to post and say, "that's not true, Buffalo only averages X of snow and Syracuse Y of snow." Then somebody else will chime in and say, "but Buffalo has a lot Polish people, and Rochester has a lot of Italians.."
Trust me.
For an "Out-of-towner" you won't notice the subtleties. If you have any specific things you would like to avoid, then post those and we can steer you in the right direction. It sounds like you want "NOT D.C." which means you really can't go wrong with any of the four.
The real estate prices will be a nice change of pace, but the taxes and utilities are quite high. Albany is the capital so it has more of that activity/economy. Buffalo drinks hard and likes it sports and stays up late. Syracuse would be a vacuum without SU.
It will take four feet of snow to shut any of these cities down. Even then, SUNY schools will still function.
I have visited, conducted business and owned realestate in Albany. Some of the suburbs are nice but the city has a very limited area that I would consider desirable. There are boarded up houses and store fronts all over the city including some of the out skirts. Not trying to bash Albany but I haven't seen that at all in Syracuse, a small city that I think is great. Rochester is supposed to be very nice although the NY Times ran an article recently, naming it one of the countries deadliest cities with one of the highest per capita murder rates. My niece lives there and seems to love it there. She said there are some rough sections. Buffalo I am not too familiar with but I know it is the biggest of them all.
Hi Glen, there is a shirt - and I guess it's not funny unless you have a twisted sense of humor like myself - that says, "Thanks for visiting Rochester, sorry we missed you." Beneath the text is a picture of a smoking gun.
It is true that Rochester is very dangerous. But it is a very small, defined, and avoidable part of Rochester.
Every city mentioned has a "warzone" area. Buffalo may be the only city in the industrialized world where you can buy a house for $5,000. There is a pocket in each city (Buf, Roc, Syr, Alb) where there are boarded houses, guns, drugs etc. I have to tell you, this is one of the reasons why I miss Upstate. In Florida, there are million dollar homes on the same street as crackhouses. I happen to live on one of these streets (but whether you think I live in a crackhouse or mansion is up to you! ). It is so bizarre if you are used to the city structure of the Northeast. All of the "bad areas" in Upstate cities are confined.
Anyway seekingchange, clue us in a little on what you're all about. If I had to go back to grad school and I had to narrow it down to one from the list, I would say Buffalo.
An an upstate-NYer all my life and having lived in Rochester for 5 years and Buffalo for 10 ... I know there are a lot of differences between the atmosphere in the two cities.
The overall metro areas are different - Buffalo has always felt like more of a blue-collar city and Rochester always seemed to be more affluent across the board ... but given some recent woes with Kodak, Bauch-&-Laumb, & IBM, I've heard Rochester has lost some of its high-end jobs.
Of course, if you are going to live in one of the nicer suburbs of each - you really will notice little difference.
In the Buffalo metro - I'd look at the Amherst, Clarence, South Lockport, Pendleton areas up north or the Orchard Park, East Aurora areas on the south side. I agree with the earlier assessment that Buffalo is a hard-drinking town that stays up late. It may have something to do with the bars not closing until 4am ... and yes, we all bleed our sports teams. For that matter, so does Rochester - they bleed for the Buffalo sports teams, too since the Bills have their summer camp at St. John Fisher College and the Sabres' main farm team is the Rochester Americans.
Syracuse, to me, is too small and if you think Buffalo gets a bad rap for weather - Syracuse has it much much worse for sure. (Lake Erie normally freezes over - shutting down the lake effect snow machine in January. Lake Ontario never freezes over, so Syracuse and Watertown especially get dumped on all throughout late winter and early spring). The other main difference is that if you live north of the city of Buffalo, you normally don't get hit too bad with snow. If you live south of the city of Buffalo - you'll get hammered repeatedly. Compared to other northern cities, though, the actual temperatures never get too awful cold (rarely below zero, anyway). If its winter, I actually enjoy the snow. Our cities are so good at dealing with it on the roads, too, that we're not shut down for long either. Cities like Chicago, Milwaukee, & Indianapolis are much, much colder than Buffalo typically - but they don't get as much snow ... they get ice and wind. To me, I'd rather be a little warmer and if its cold you might as well get the beauty of snow.
Like someone also said, though, the taxes are pretty high. They probably aren't much higher than DC and are a little less than they are in NYC ... but Upstate NY is still largely footing the bill for a lot of the social programs & medicare down in NYC - so your property values are pretty reasonable, but your taxes are comparitively high.
Good luck with your search. I've got a house for sale in Clarence if you choose the Buffalo area!
Well, I was born and raised (and am moving back to) Rochester, and Samohtal said some pretty valid things. Buffalo has always been a little more Blue Collar and Rochester more White Collar. Rochester is home to Kodak, which has been having some pretty major issues in it's manufacturing sector and cutting jobs in Rochester and around all around the world. The area is slowly starting to recover and re-gain it's "hich tech" status as many of former high tech employees at Kodak and Xerox (another company from Rochester) have started their own businesses that are now growing bigger. The area's economy is diversifying and "the big three" (Kodak, Xerox, and Bausch&Lomb) aren't the only driving force in the areas high tech economy any more. There is also a significant amount of education-driven development going on in the area as the University of Rochester keeps expanding and expanding (it surpassed Kodak as the region's top employer this year). Buffalo I do have to admit has a little more "charm" that stems from it's long-standing blue-collar tradtions. And from what I here (I don't really spend a lot of time in Buffalo), it's economy is also starting to diversify. Property taxes are through the roof throughout the state of NY. Rochester's more affluent eastern suburbs have some of the best school districts in the country though.
I currently live in Albany. I used to live outside Syracuse, and am familiar with Buffalo and Rochester.
Out of these cities Buffalo should be the first one you eliminate. Buffalo has seen its best days, it is a rust belt, smoke stack town. The closets major city is Toronto, have fun crossing the border.
Syracuse and Rochester are very comparable. I would go with Rochester though because it is near the waterfront and has a younger population. Syracuse of course has the Major Division 1 sports program that is very attractive.
In my opinion Albany is the best of the upstate cities. The previously mentioned upstate cities have a more midwest feel to them. If you are in Syracuse you mine as well be in Grand Rapids Michigan. Same pace of life, accents etc... Albany is really more of a little brother to NYC. Half the people in Albany used to live in NYC or frequent there. Some of my friends from Syracuse have never been to NYC.
Albany has the best location of the upstate citeis. 3 hours to Montreal, 2 hours to NYC, 2 hours to Boston. If you do not want to drive hop on the train.
A ticket to Penn STation is only about 35 bucks from Albany.
If you like to ski you have world class ski resorts in Vermont and Lake Placid as well as the Berkshires.
Albany is called techvalley. Google techvalley and see all the dot.com / nanotech jobs in the area. AMD is opening a new plant next year.
The real estate will deffinatly be cheaper than DC.
Rochester may be more "midwestern" in charecter than Albany; but if it is it's not by much and it dosen't detour from the much more "big city feel" than Albany. Rochester has a deeper history, more museums, and just more people than Albany does. Albany is great for a city it's size; but Rochester is twice it's size.
I wouldn't say Albany is a little brother to NYC. Albany is nothing like it. I've spent some time there, and the pace is much much slower than any of the bigger upstate cities. Buffalo, Rochester and Syracuse all have more of a "big city" feel to them than Albany. You have some people living in Albany from the NYC area, but many of those people are only students. Albany has a great location as far as being close to big cities and ski resorts. It is also very close to the Adirondacks. Albany would be a great choice if you spent your weekends outside of Albany. The bigger upstate cities have more to offer as far as things to do inside the city.
Albany has the best location of the upstate citeis. 3 hours to Montreal, 2 hours to NYC, 2 hours to Boston. If you do not want to drive hop on the train.
Hmmm....sorry but Albany is 4-5 hours from Montreal (also depending on how long it takes to cross the border) and is 3 hours from NYC. Did it many times.
NYSinger
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) Are these areas comparable to Rochester? The cost of living seemed very reasonable in Rochester - how do the other areas compare? Since you can't even get a townhouse for less than $300K anywhere within 30 miles of DC, nor can you rent very many apartments for less than $1,000 for a one bedroom (an efficiency in the city), anything seems better to me. I am definitely looking for a slower pace and better quality of life. Am I looking in the right areas?
). It is so bizarre if you are used to the city structure of the Northeast. All of the "bad areas" in Upstate cities are confined.
Easy choice for relocation
