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You discuss the small tax for the Bills (somehow you keep bringing the Sabres into this) and I'll discuss what the team means to the City of Buffalo and the people who enjoy the team, fair enough?
Did you not see the image I attached in a pervious post? Erie County Bonds in the first quarter of 2009 for HSBC Arena: $18,700,000 and for Ralph Wilson Stadium: $14,366,207.88 - These are totals from the budget of the Comptroller's office. We'll have to see what bonds comes from the 2nd, 3rd & 4th quarters of the fiscal year.
That is how the Sabres are brought into the discussion. Between the two sports, more than $33 million has been bonded by Erie County. Bonded funds in the first 3 months of this year, that means even more the taxpayers have to pay, we can only imagine what the interest will be.
From where I'm sitting, the only "means" either team has is how to obtain more money out of the taxpayers.
FedUp is dead on though. You are sniping from an indefensible position.
It is like asking Erie County to pay for your cable, because you enjoy Saturday Night Live, and entertainment is valuable. We sink our money into these teams that can't support themselves, why? Because some Buffalonians will be bored on Sunday if they don't? Or even worse, won't be able to get drunk at 11 AM 8... I mean 7 weeks year.
If the Bills can't make it here without my tax dollars, they should be somewhere else, or they should figure out a way to become profitable (besides ask the EC for more money).
If it means that they will have to play 3 games in Toronto a year, in order to not require subsidies, so be it! We are taxed to death already, they ought to at least use our tax dollars more wisely than they are.
Well Canerican, I didn't originally mean for the thread to go into taxation... I entertained it for awhile to be fair, but, lets keep it on topic... what would happen to the City of Buffalo should the Bills ever leave?
Feel free to go start a "The Buffalo Bills Tax is Ruining my Life" thread... I'll post there with my other thoughts just like your buddy will. We all seem to be civil here from what I can see...
I am beginning to understand it all now, you'd like to have a thread going for posts of only what you agree with. If you're asking a question how will Buffalo be without the Bills, my answer is a lot better off, and for reasons being they have placed their financial tax burder on the hard working people of Erie County for much too long.
Did you not see the image I attached in a pervious post? Erie County Bonds in the first quarter of 2009 for HSBC Arena: $18,700,000 and for Ralph Wilson Stadium: $14,366,207.88 - These are totals from the budget of the Comptroller's office. We'll have to see what bonds comes from the 2nd, 3rd & 4th quarters of the fiscal year.
That is how the Sabres are brought into the discussion. Between the two sports, more than $33 million has been bonded by Erie County. Bonded funds in the first 3 months of this year, that means even more the taxpayers have to pay, we can only imagine what the interest will be.
From where I'm sitting, the only "means" either team has is how to obtain more money out of the taxpayers.
I am not concerned with the HSBC Arena... that is yours to discuss.
I am beginning to understand it all now, you'd like to have a thread going for posts of only what you agree with. If you're asking a question how will Buffalo be without the Bills, my answer is a lot better off, and for reasons being they have placed their financial tax burder on the hard working people of Erie County for much too long.
Getting back on the original topic, you are obsessed with taxes... I'm more concerned with what would happen to the City should they leave. Can you work with that or should I use different words?
Getting back on the original topic, you are obsessed with taxes... I'm more concerned with what would happen to the City should they leave. Can you work with that or should I use different words?
So is FedUp, obviously. He also concerned about them staying. Just because someone doesn't agree with your point of view, doesn't make them off-topic.
You know, Erie County is hemorrhaging people right now, largely going to lower taxed places, I think that the idea that we could lower taxes by saving upwards of $50m by not giving our sports teams our hard earned money, without our consent, is an idea worth considering.
FedUp isn't saying, "send the Bills to Monkey's Eyebrow, AZ," he's saying, make the Bills viable, and stop giving them our money, without our consent (or even a thank you).
I agree with him - I think that if we are giving them so much money, they should bribe all the citizenry with free box seats, not just our elected officials
I understand how FedUpWNY chose his name... I'm pretty darn fed up too. We need real change, but 1/3 of the population, and 9/10 of the public officers are stuck in 1970s style politics.
The Bills are a convenient target, since they are highly visible. What about everything else that is paid for or subsidized by county dollars, and only a portion of the population takes direct advantage of?
Take the Libraries. County money pays for them, but the whole population doesn't utilize them. Why should those who have no interest in the Library pay for them?
What about the $11 million budgeted for redevelopment of the Bethlehem Steel Site? Is the end result going to be worth it for the taxpayers?
Or Bass Pro? We paid to tear down the Aud, and will pay to build this store in the hopes that it stimulates growth at the inner harbor.
The budget on the county website shows $9 million for reconstruction of the botanical garden, compared to $18 mil for the Ralph. Is the botanical garden going to generate as much economic impact as the Ralph to justify that much investment?
Now, I am biased, a Bills season ticket holder, and a big pro sports fan in general. I do not mind doing some subsidy to keep these teams, partially out of selfishness. Beyond that, I recognize they do bring some added marketability and economic impact to the area. When trying to attract people or business to the area, having available entertainment doesn't hurt, and having a pro sports franchise can help make the area more marketable.
However, if we are going to discuss whether county money should be used in any capacity to support having a pro franchise, I think it should also be discussed in every other form of expense done for the so-called public good. If money shouldn't be spent on pro sports, maybe it shouldn't be spent on the arts, cultural expenses, etc. Maybe it shouldn't be spent on parks since not everyone participates, or roads since not everyone drives on every county road, or sheriff's coverage since many communities employ their own public safety.
Where exactly is the line?
The major expense to local and state taxes are not really these sorts of expenses anyway. Sure, you can save some money here or there, but we already learned back in the Red Budget days that only about 10% of the county's expenses were in the county's control, with the other 90% being mandated by the State. The problems with taxes around here are many, many times bigger than expenses on the Bills, or arts, or anything like that.
I agree with him - I think that if we are giving them so much money, they should bribe all the citizenry with free box seats, not just our elected officials
Or atleast give taxpayers a share in their stocks so taxpayers can have a say in how much we're going to tax ourselves. Ya know, right? While you put a "big grin" after talking about politicians, it is true that elected leaders are granted luxary boxes, no questions asked. But you know for sure the Bills have their hand out any time something needs to be fixed in the stadium. I am fed up, I get a view from the political inside (looking out) and I don't like what I see. I don't like knowing the hard working taxpayers have to sit back and pay more money to fulfill the needs of other people's entertainment values. I am so happy Canerican sees my point of view, I have nothing against the Bills or the Sabres, I just want to see them pay for everything themselves, instead of putting further finanicial burden on to the taxpayers of Erie County. More than $33 million in bonded funds is big money for a county that is under a control board.
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