Will Buffalo Stagger and Fall if the Buffalo Bills Were No Longer There? (New York: living, agriculture)

[FedupWNY]

Originally Posted by Checkered24

Take the Libraries. County money pays for them, but the whole population doesn't utilize them. Why should those who have no interest in the Library pay for them?

Isn't it something, only $9 million is bonded for community college education in Erie County, but almost $15 million for the Bills is okay, and not using libraries becomes a concern? 10 libraries were closed 2 years ago on account of a depressed county budget, do you think the Bills didn't get their subsidy? oh yes they did. The Bills didn't cut back on how much taxpayers weren't going to pay them. Erie County (says they) couldn't afford to keep libraries open, but bond millions of tax dollars so the Bills can play 7 home games a year. Wow. The mentality of "sports fans" just hit an all-time low.

Or Bass Pro? We paid to tear down the Aud, and will pay to build this store in the hopes that it stimulates growth at the inner harbor.

Building for Bass Pro isn't going to be a yearly ritual like paying for the Buffalo Bills has been since the opening of Ralph Wilson Stadium. Bass Pro is a one time thing, the Bills on the other hand, is and had always been a franchise of corporate welfare in Erie County.

The budget on the county website shows $9 million for reconstruction of the botanical garden, compared to $18 mil for the Ralph. Is the botanical garden going to generate as much economic impact as the Ralph to justify that much investment?

The Botanical Gardens is open more then 7 weeks a year, and again, taxing the people or Erie County isn't a yearly ritual like the Bills.

Now, I am biased, a Bills season ticket holder, and a big pro sports fan in general. I do not mind doing some subsidy to keep these teams, partially out of selfishness. Beyond that, I recognize they do bring some added marketability and economic impact to the area. When trying to attract people or business to the area, having available entertainment doesn't hurt, and having a pro sports franchise can help make the area more marketable.

I'm glad you wrote "selfishness", it saves me from the insult you gave yourself. Having "available entertainment" costs the taxpayers.

If money shouldn't be spent on pro sports, maybe it shouldn't be spent on the arts, cultural expenses, etc. Maybe it shouldn't be spent on parks since not everyone participates, or roads since not everyone drives on every county road, or sheriff's coverage since many communities employ their own public safety.

Where exactly is the line?

The line is that the Bills only play 7 home games a year, and we subsidize a facitily that stands 52 weeks out of the year, used or not. Culturals are open more often than Ralph Wilson Stadium and don't cater to the drunken football tailgating crowd that is only with a Bills game during regular football season. Culturals get far less than the pro sports teams, the offer more and are more accessable throughout the year than a losing football team. Culturals in Erie County have educational values, not supportive drunkeness, and yet they are first to be cut in the budget. We can't talk about that though.

The major expense to local and state taxes are not really these sorts of expenses anyway. Sure, you can save some money here or there, but we already learned back in the Red Budget days that only about 10% of the county's expenses were in the county's control, with the other 90% being mandated by the State. The problems with taxes around here are many, many times bigger than expenses on the Bills, or arts, or anything like that.

Yes, we already know feeding the homeless, sheltering battered women and education after high school are a lesser priority when it comes to "saving" the Buffalo Bills. The Bills got $4 million more in bonded funds than Erie Community College this year. What does that tell us? It tells us that we really are a drinking town with a football problem, but this time no one is laughing at the joke. It's no wonder their aren't any good jobs here, people are raising their off-spring to love the sport of football more than getting an eucation. What an eye-opener this conversation has been.

[jblake78728]

I'm neither a Bills or Sabres fan but if those teams weren't here I would have never even considered moving to the city. Having a pro sports entertainment option makes the area much more marketable.

Moderator cut: personal debates/attack

[Canerican]

Originally Posted by jblake78728

I'm neither a Bills or Sabres fan but if those teams weren't here I would have never even considered moving to the city. Having a pro sports entertainment option makes the area much more marketable.

Perhaps. But having to millions in extra taxes and interest each year makes the area fair less palatable to those who actually come here to work and try and be successful.

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[FedupWNY]

Originally Posted by jblake78728

I'm neither a Bills or Sabres fan but if those teams weren't here I would have never even considered moving to the city. Having a pro sports entertainment option makes the area much more marketable.

They still can be marketable to the area, they just don't have to tax the people of Erie County.

[livecontent]

This is a very interesting discussion. I grew up in Cheektowaga and I now live in the Denver area. When, I moved to Denver, over 30 years ago, it was the size of Buffalo when I was growing up, now it is much bigger and Buffalo is much smaller.

Denver has a football tax. It has a new football stadium, a new baseball stadium, a new arena---it is a big sports town with all major sports teams. I see the football tax every time I buy something. It really does not bother me. I do not like football and I did not vote for the tax but it is here and I accept it. In addition, we have a cultural tax. Denver has expanded the zoo; it has built a new Opera House, built a new art gallery, and expanded the Performing Arts Center. I voted for this tax as I enjoy these venues.

I suppose many voted against these cultural taxes because they hate Opera, Ballet, the Arts and the Symphony but likes football;still they have to accept it as fact. Of course, there are some people who support and enjoy both types of entertainment.

I do think football robs the revenues out of an area for a profit business to pay excessive salaries to players and to owners. It is certainly a problem is Buffalo because Buffalo has severe financial problems. Support for the Arts cannot be compared because they are non-profit and do not support excessive salaries.

That is the big difference between Denver and Buffalo---Denver can afford this luxury of entertainment, Buffalo cannot do it.

Buffalo cannot do it and close libraries; Denver expands and builds new libraries

Buffalo cannot do it because it does not have money for the improvement of the infrastructure; Denver is continually improving the city.

Buffalo closes the Arts; Denver builts new Centers. Buffalo sells the art holdings for support; Denver builts a new Gallery.

Buffalo abandons public transit; Denver has the largest build out of commuter rail in the nation.

Buffalo closes parks; Denver acquires more open space and adds to the extensive parks and trails that already exist.

Buffalo is not so clean, not so safe and a politically backward city. Denver is clean, relatively safe and a progressive city. Buffalo population is declining and neighborhoods are in decay. Denver population is rising and all neighborhoods are in renewal.

Buffalo does not have the funds to expand and has difficulty attracting new businesses. Denver builds a new airport, a new convention center and attracts businesses and creative people.

Buffalo is using football as a way to deflect the populous from the real deficiencies in the region. Denver does have deficiencies but it does address these problems and can well afford football.

The Real issue is not whether football is good or evil. The Real problem is that Buffalo cannot afford Football and at the same time ignore all the glaring problems that the regions faces. The people of Western New York have to budget their resources to make the area more attractive and Football is not the answer to the problems today.

Buffalo should have been where Denver is today. Buffalo has much better natural resources than the semi-arid lands of the West. Buffalo has extensive water resources; Denver does not. Western New York has fertile soil; the Great Plains do not. Buffalo had more talent, had a head start and it failed. Buffalo was part of the Empire State with the all the great financial markets, talent and resources. Denver, "Cow Town", was part of a big empty semi-arid state with limited resources and Colorado was not even close to the talent and financial might of New York. It is a sad story and football fanaticism is making it much worse.

Livecontent

[FedupWNY]

Thank you livecontent for your insight and comparisons.

[Town&Country]

Moderator cut: Orphaned: post you were quoting/replying to has been deleted

If the Bills Ever left the first feeling would be denial... no one could possibly believe it. It would be numbness throughout the city and through fans worldwide. It would leave a large empty hole in fans 5 through 105 years old. It wouldn't take long after that for the economy in Buffalo to take a deep dive... there are too many people dedicated to the team. It would probably take a year to begin to feel the real effects.

I personally would cry for days... that would be one of the most horrible days in my life.

Jim Kelly... I hope the man can deliver what he has promised, to keep the Bills in Buffalo.

[Canerican]

Originally Posted by Town&Country

If the Bills Ever left the first feeling would be denial... no one could possibly believe it. It would be numbness throughout the city and through fans worldwide. It would leave a large empty hole in fans 5 through 105 years old.

Maybe in 1935, we have cable television now. I mean, I like the Titans, and the Longhorns for college, yet I have never even seen either of them play in person... You'll get used to a satellite feed, either way the view with television cameras is far better than from the rock pile, or the 50 yard line for that matter.

Either way, you'll get the best of both worlds when the team officially moves to Toronto in a few years, you can drive an hour there, drink slightly stronger beer, and not have to pay the taxes on the team.

[BuffaloLight]

Town&County why did you leave Erie County all those years ago? Why wasn't the Buffalo Bills enough to keep you here? I hope the Bills stay here too. Just not so heavily and chronically dependent on taxpayers dollars with no questions asked. Like all the other cultural venues are beginning to see... less money and more strings attached to that money.

[FedupWNY]

Originally Posted by Town&Country

Yes I do and thank you for admitting that...

Setting the record straight, I don't know Canerican, other than what he writes on this MB. And I didn't buy a jersey in 1993. In fact, I have never purchased a jersey for either team at all. IDK where that information came from, but it is a lie.