Will Buffalo Stagger and Fall if the Buffalo Bills Were No Longer There? (live, title)

[gonetoelpaso]

Originally Posted by FedupWNY

Do you really believe that? Only season ticket holders believe that. Only tailgaters would cry in their beer at 7 am on a Sunday morning in November if they are told something as crazy.

you really want buffalo to become Toldeo Ohio, dont you?

[Canerican]

Originally Posted by gonetoelpaso

you really want buffalo to become Toldeo Ohio, dont you?

I don't know about Fedup, but I would LOVE for Buffalo to be more like Toledo. Both cities were industrial centers, only Buffalo is clinging to a bygone era, and is about to lose it's status as a major city (if it hasn't already).

Toledo has moved past the days of industrial labor, and is growing. It has introduced lower taxes, and now has a population almost 50,000 greater than Buffalo. It has diversified, and has become a center of finance and healthcare in Ohio.

What is Buffalo? There are no jobs here except crappy union labor (which, if you haven't noticed, are leaving, and not coming back). Average wages are higher in Toledo, and get this: housing prices are no higher, and taxes are lower. Amazing right!

Matter of fact, if you are looking at moving from Buffalo (as so many are) Toledo might be a great place. It is very similar to here, except with jobs, and less taxes.

So, yeah, only a moron would say that Toledo is worse off than Buffalo.

[FedupWNY]

Originally Posted by Buffalonian4life

Feddy just doesn't want to answer. Perhaps there isn't an answer?

What's there to answer? The financial burden of the sports teams out-weighs any entertainment benefits. When I learned the other day that HSBC arena was sudsized in bonded funds more than Ralph Wilson Stadium, I have become less of a Sabres fan, for reasons of the tax burdens they put on the people of Erie County. My feelings for the Sabres are now the same feelings I hold for the Buffalo Bills. Erie County residents are taxed enough and paying for sports team that already make a profit is the biggest form of corporate welfare, and I'm sorry if Bills fans don't like hearing that taxpayers are fed up with having to pay for the pleasing entertainment needs of a drunken crowd 7 weeks out of the year. And so that everyone knows, I'll say it again, I don't have a problem with the Buffalo Bills staying here, I would just like to see them lift the financial burden off the taxpayers of Erie County. Is this a simple enough answer? I did a post showing everyone more than $33 million was bonded in the first 3 month of 2009 for both the Ralph & the Arena. The taxpayers have to pay the bonds back with interest. There is so much more our County can spend this money on, improving infrastructure, improving health and wellness needs of the elderly, children & the homless. All of the money given to the Sabres and Bills can go towards better educational learning at Erie Community College.

When T&C asked about what will happen to Buffalo if the Bills left, honestly I don't think the City of Buffalo will be impacted at all, as it is County taxes we pay that continue to fund the sports teams. It's Erie County who continues to bond funds for the teams, putting the finacial burden on the backs of taxpayers who, I might add, are already strapped to no end with other taxes, fees & surcharges. Within that question, I think Erie County will be better off without this sports taxation. A refund to the taxpayers would be small, but symbolic on a team to finally "give back" to the County it has taken so much money from. The teams can end the taxation the people are obligated to pay as the teams continue to make a profit.

[gonetoelpaso]

Originally Posted by Canerican

I don't know about Fedup, but I would LOVE for Buffalo to be more like Toledo. Both cities were industrial centers, only Buffalo is clinging to a bygone era, and is about to lose it's status as a major city (if it hasn't already).

Toledo has moved past the days of industrial labor, and is growing. It has introduced lower taxes, and now has a population almost 50,000 greater than Buffalo. It has diversified, and has become a center of finance and healthcare in Ohio.

What is Buffalo? There are no jobs here except crappy union labor (which, if you haven't noticed, are leaving, and not coming back). Average wages are higher in Toledo, and get this: housing prices are no higher, and taxes are lower. Amazing right!

Matter of fact, if you are looking at moving from Buffalo (as so many are) Toledo might be a great place. It is very similar to here, except with jobs, and less taxes.

So, yeah, only a moron would say that Toledo is worse off than Buffalo.

zomgz you mean it isnt, you are making Toledo seem like a Mecca or Urban Renewal and revitalization

[Canerican]

Originally Posted by gonetoelpaso

zomgz you mean it isnt, you are making Toledo seem like a Mecca or Urban Renewal and revitalization

Not Mecca (I don't think that Mecca is all that great ).

But Toledo isn't an amazing city, but they are doing something right, more people are moving in there, than leaving, which is far more than you can say about Buffalo.

I am always amused, whenever I mention a city that is similar to Buffalo, that Buffalo could use as a model for growth, I am mocked, or called a "Buffalo-hater". Nevermind that if I truly hated Buffalo, I wouldn't want it to grow.

This is why Buffalo won't grow: Stubborn idiots who have been using the same failed tactics for 40 years, and led us down a path to the destruction of WNY.

You know, if you truly want Buffalo to grow, you have to acknowledge that we need change. Doing the same thing over and over clearly isn't working.

[Checkered24]

I think some of the point I was driving at in my other post was missed or ignored.

I agree taxes are too high. I disagree that the sports teams must be a total casualty for change to occur. They do cost money, but are by no means are biggest expense.

However, ANY change is going to have to start in Albany. The problems locally are in many ways bigger than just the local city and county politics. Too much of our taxes are state mandated at the local level.

Yes, some of that money goes to worthwhile programs. No I would not want to see them all cut. However, some of it, such as medicaid, is paying for the best medicaid coverage in the country. That in itself is a nice thing to have if you can afford it. We cannot. Another problem with it is money being used to support retirees from NYS living in Florida nursing homes. I don't advocate kicking them out on the street, but at least have my tax dollars pay for care in my own state, where the money will hire people here and flow back into the local economy.

There are plenty of other areas as well. However, our red/green budget days clearly showed us that the state mandates are the real tax burdens which are bankrupting local governments, and many need a long and hard look at their costs and worths.

Along with that, cutting back on some funding for the sports teams is ok. I am not sure why we had to buy Ralph a new scoreboard for instance, but we did. It's nice, but was it necessary? Probably not.

[gonetoelpaso]

Originally Posted by Canerican

Not Mecca (I don't think that Mecca is all that great ).

But Toledo isn't an amazing city, but they are doing something right, more people are moving in there, than leaving, which is far more than you can say about Buffalo.

I am always amused, whenever I mention a city that is similar to Buffalo, that Buffalo could use as a model for growth, I am mocked, or called a "Buffalo-hater". Nevermind that if I truly hated Buffalo, I wouldn't want it to grow.

This is why Buffalo won't grow: Stubborn idiots who have been using the same failed tactics for 40 years, and led us down a path to the destruction of WNY.

You know, if you truly want Buffalo to grow, you have to acknowledge that we need change. Doing the same thing over and over clearly isn't working.

Mecca is actually one of the cleanest cities in the world, thats because the police over there dont take kindly to littering, but then again to dont take kindly to anything

[livecontent]

Originally Posted by Checkered24

I think some of the point I was driving at in my other post was missed or ignored.

I agree taxes are too high. I disagree that the sports teams must be a total casualty for change to occur. They do cost money, but are by no means are biggest expense.

However, ANY change is going to have to start in Albany. The problems locally are in many ways bigger than just the local city and county politics. Too much of our taxes are state mandated at the local level.

Yes, some of that money goes to worthwhile programs. No I would not want to see them all cut. However, some of it, such as medicaid, is paying for the best medicaid coverage in the country. That in itself is a nice thing to have if you can afford it. We cannot. Another problem with it is money being used to support retirees from NYS living in Florida nursing homes. I don't advocate kicking them out on the street, but at least have my tax dollars pay for care in my own state, where the money will hire people here and flow back into the local economy.

There are plenty of other areas as well. However, our red/green budget days clearly showed us that the state mandates are the real tax burdens which are bankrupting local governments, and many need a long and hard look at their costs and worths.

Along with that, cutting back on some funding for the sports teams is ok. I am not sure why we had to buy Ralph a new scoreboard for instance, but we did. It's nice, but was it necessary? Probably not.

It is not a good idea to cut Medicaid so you can have your football game.

Medicaid is a state program supplemented by Federal Dollars. So if New York retirees go to Florida and receive Medicaid, then it is the State of Florida that would pay, not New York. In addition, the cost of the care would be much more of a problem in New York than the benefits of job creations. New York should consider itself lucky that some retire to warmer locations. However, in fact, it is the well off, who tend to move, and the poor more likely stay in place.

Are you saying that seniors should not have the right to retire where they choose; or when their mate dies and go where their children live---that is total nonsense.

Are you referring to the highly paid and excessive retirement benefits of New York State Employees??? Well, you know little of Medicaid. There is not way with their monthly income, for most of them, to qualify for Medicaid. Medicaid has very strict income and asset requirements.

Or are you confusing Medicare and Medicaid??? The Federal Program,Medicare, does not cover long term care; it covers limited care. Only Medicaid covers long term care.

It does not really matter what you know or do not know--the point is that cutting Medical Services for the elderly, the poor, the disabled and children so you can enjoy your drunken game of football--is ludicrous. That is why football fanatics are looked at with dismay by intelligent people.

You will never play football but you and your family may very well need Medicaid. Think well about what I am saying.

Livecontent

[FedupWNY]

Originally Posted by livecontent

Only Medicaid covers long term care.

Depending on household income will medicaid cover medical needs for any length of time. The whole program has an income threshold, once a client exceeds the threshold, their benefits are denied. But I do agree, it shouldn't be cut so that sports fans can keep a football team here 7 weeks out of a year.

[Canerican]

Good post livecontent. you have to admit though, both parties are dead wrong on Medicare, we keep expanding it, even though we don't have the money to pay for it as is. We are selling out our future to to the Chinese, all to buy some politicians votes.

America will be a far different country in 50 years, far worse probably, we won't be the superpower. We can't be. LBJ, George Bush, and Barack Obama have caused so much debt to be on our shoulders that we will never get out.

And now we hear that we need to spend MORE money. We have no idea how to pay for it, yet we keep on spending. It makes no sense to the common man, yet our President says it is needed, so we should just assume he is right (Bush and Obama are both VERY guilty of this).