Will Buffalo Stagger and Fall if the Buffalo Bills Were No Longer There? (Wilson: rental car, 2009)

[Krisps]

I'm not buying it, especially when you resort to the starving/homeless argument, mention "losing" while indicating it's not relevent, and infer that Buffalo football consists of tailgating 7 times and nothing else. It's pretty clear you don't know football and have a big bias against it and its fans.

[FedupWNY]

Originally Posted by Krisps

I'm not buying it, especially when you resort to the starving/homeless argument, mention "losing" while indicating it's not relevent, and infer that Buffalo football consists of tailgating 7 times and nothing else. It's pretty clear you don't know football and have a big bias against it and its fans.

This is the psychological side of it all. My reference to homeless people and starving children is truth. My only complaint in bias is against the taxes we're forced to pay for the Buffalo Bills.

[UpstaterInBklyn]

Public subsidies for sports teams are endemic to small cities. In general, big cities do not provide public monetary assistance for sports teams, because they know they don't have to.

This is why several NFL teams have moved from big cities to smaller ones (Houston Oilers/Tennessee Titans, St. Louis Rams, the Raiders moving back to Oakland from LA). Los Angeles let the Raiders go and still has no football team because they refuse to provide subsidies. The small cities threw a bunch of incentives and free stadiums to entice the teams to move.

Then again, as I stated in an earlier thread on this subject, Lots of growing, successful metro areas that are larger than Buffalo/Niagara have no NFL team and apparently don't see obtaining one as a community imperative. Some of these are: Portland OR, San Antonio TX, Columbus OH, Las Vegas NV, Salt Lake City UT, Austin TX, Louisville KY, Oklahoma City and Richmond VA. Toronto, on the other hand, is itching for a team.

The New England Patriots and Washington Redskins are two teams that I know receive nothing from their local governments, but there are probably others. In fact, the Pats have to pay rent for the land their stadium sits on. Here in NYC, the Giants and Jets financed their own new stadium in NJ but the government built the infrastructure improvements to service it. They receive no ongoing operating funds, however.

The key issue for the Bills is that Buffalo lacks a large enough corporate base to support the team in the areas of sponsorship and luxury box revenue, which is where the real money is made in the pro football business. Selling out the stadium every week is small potatoes, and those revenues must be shared with other teams. What is exceptionally galling to me is that millions are being left on the table by not selling the naming rights to the stadium so that uncle Ralph can feed his ego by naming the stadium after himself. The naming rights revenue could make up for the taxpayer subsidy. M&T Bank bought the naming rights for the Ravens' stadium in Baltimore. I suspect they would have done it in their hometown of Buffalo if it were possible.

Bottom line, if a majority of taxpayers of Erie County think subsidizing the team is a good use of their tax money, so be it. However, it would be nice to have a public referendum like other cities have done (Pittsburgh), but that will never happen in Erie Co.

[Krisps]

The Bills are one of many subsidies, but one which is clearly favored by quite a majority of Buffalo.

You see football in the worst light and you can't admit your clear bias against it. And please, you're not fooling me with the starving/homeless argument.

But I do think that subsidies in general are wrong with some exceptions, have gotten way out of hand, and have become acceptable unfortunately. If you argued against other subsidies like you have about football, you'd have more credibility in your argument.

[Town&Country]

Originally Posted by FedupWNY

This is the psychological side of it all. My reference to homeless people and starving children is truth. My only complaint in bias is against the taxes we're forced to pay for the Buffalo Bills.

Your reference to homeless and "starving children" IS truth, I agree, but that happens in every city in the world. Its a given.

I have, at last count, 238 family members living in the WNY area, ages ranging from 1 to 96 years old. All of them above the age of 4 are Bills fans, this ranges from Swormsville to Clarence to Lancaster to Depew to Alden to Attica to Williamsville, etc... Only two families that I am aware of have season tickets.

The money spent on the weekends, the money spent on gear, trinkets, food, beverages, ... the great conversations that go from the current back to the inception are incredible. The Bills bring A Lot of people together. Weekends in the fall and winter Especially are coveted but Buffalo Bills support reighs All year long, its a constant middle ground and brings even total strangers in for good talk.

A Lot of money is spent in WNY over the Bills... absolutely.

Now, if there were a way to buy the team (not possible now, but Green Bay is Grandfathered), there would be no problem with fans ponying up the cash...

As I know it, up to 32 individuals can own a team, with One of them owning 30%... we'll have to see how this plays out in the upcoming years...

[FedupWNY]

Originally Posted by Krisps

But I do think that subsidies in general are wrong with some exceptions, have gotten way out of hand, and have become acceptable unfortunately. If you argued against other subsidies like you have about football, you'd have more credibility in your argument.

Unlike you, I don't see homelessness as a form of entertainment. Not to mention starving children in Erie County, or senior citizens who have a hard time finding a way to afford perscriptions to stay alive. 99% of the livelihood in Erie County don't find their lives less important to that of football 7 weeks a year, and yet Erie County forks over money every year to subsidize a football team who have the financial means to support their own needs, instead of forcing the burden onto the taxpayers. A homeless person downtown is worth more than a broken seat at "The Ralph".

[FedupWNY]

Originally Posted by Town&Country

Your reference to homeless and "starving children" IS truth, I agree, but that happens in every city in the world. Its a given.

Financially suporting a sports team is not in every county throughout the Country Like Erie.

I have, at last count, 238 family members living in the WNY area, ages ranging from 1 to 96 years old. All of them above the age of 4 are Bills fans, this ranges from Swormsville to Clarence to Lancaster to Depew to Alden to Attica to Williamsville, etc... Only two families that I am aware of have season tickets.

None who do live in the City of Buffalo? Great News.

The money spent on the weekends, the money spent on gear, trinkets, food, beverages, ... the great conversations that go from the current back to the inception are incredible. The Bills bring A Lot of people together. Weekends in the fall and winter Especially are coveted but Buffalo Bills support reighs All year long, its a constant middle ground and brings even total strangers in for good talk.

Unfortunately, there is a difference between voluntary support and forced financial support. There's a tax line to where we have to pay for the Buffalo Bills, instead of choosing to buy a new jersey or not.

A Lot of money is spent in WNY over the Bills... absolutely.

And there's the millions that taxpayers are FORCED to pay for them to play here to fit the psychological needs of beer-drinking tailgaters!

[FedupWNY]

Originally Posted by UpstaterInBklyn

The New England Patriots and Washington Redskins are two teams that I know receive nothing from their local governments, but there are probably others. In fact, the Pats have to pay rent for the land their stadium sits on. Here in NYC, the Giants and Jets financed their own new stadium in NJ but the government built the infrastructure improvements to service it. They receive no ongoing operating funds, however.

This is what Erie County needs most, a self-sufficient football team. The Bills should be paying us to fix "The Ralph" instead of putting the financial burden on to the taxpayers.

[Town&Country]

Originally Posted by FedupWNY

Financially suporting a sports team is not in every county throughout the Country Like Erie.



None who do live in the City of Buffalo? Great News.



Unfortunately, there is a difference between voluntary support and forced financial support. There's a tax line to where we have to pay for the Buffalo Bills, instead of choosing to buy a new jersey or not.



And there's the millions that taxpayers are FORCED to pay for them to play here to fit the psychological needs of beer-drinking tailgaters!

Keep "smacking" yourself in the head and you might get a concussion lol... "beer-drinking tailgaters!" ...And, all the people that post on boards across the internet on Bills sites probably make up less than 1% of all Bills fans worldwide...

I'll bet if someone went to Wegmans with a clipboard, and a simple yes or no answer to the question: "Are you a Bills fan?" (Not, are you worried about the taxes or anything like that), the clipboard would tilt to the answer "yes".

The Bills are a Huge part of this city like it or not, and contribute quite a bit to the local and worldwide economy. I just bought a sweet Bills shirt last Saturday...

[Town&Country]

Originally Posted by FedupWNY

Financially suporting a sports team is not in every county throughout the Country Like Erie.



None who do live in the City of Buffalo? Great News.



Unfortunately, there is a difference between voluntary support and forced financial support. There's a tax line to where we have to pay for the Buffalo Bills, instead of choosing to buy a new jersey or not.



And there's the millions that taxpayers are FORCED to pay for them to play here to fit the psychological needs of beer-drinking tailgaters!

None of them Want to live in the city, but, the mass majority of them live in Erie County with a few in Wyoming county. I come from old families and they have always lived where they live now. No one has ever complained in the slightest way about having RWS on the tax bill...