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Old 07-19-2009, 08:14 AM
 
417 posts, read 809,545 times
Reputation: 457

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Fedup, I'm trying to have a rational argument with you. Give it a try (see, for example, Town&Country's posts). You think I see homelessness as entertainment? Wow. The more you write, the more clear your insanity becomes apparent. The more you use that ridiculous (and you know it) argument, the more idiotic you appear.

I will repeat, this all about your hatred of football and football fans.

 
Old 07-19-2009, 08:26 AM
 
Location: Hamburg, NY
1,350 posts, read 1,953,031 times
Reputation: 943
Quote:
Originally Posted by FedupWNY View Post
You don't get it, the Buffalo Bills can win every Super Bowl from now to Kingdon Come, I don't care, as long as the taxpayers don't have to keep paying for them to be here. It's corporate welfare that I'm not a fan of. Until they start paying their own way in Erie County I'll never support "our hometown team". As much money I've paid to the team, I should own stock in it!

So you are also against giving corporations tax breaks to move to WNY? Are you against all the jobs & prosperity they would bring as well?

I seriously believe you want to see Buffalo turn into Flint, Michigan. If the Bills did leave you wouldn't even notice the savings on your taxes & in the end it would just be one less thing to do in a city that already has serious national image problems.


There is an easy solution to keeping the Bills & lowering the burden on taxpayers but it wont play out until Ralph passes & the team is sold. Build a new stadium downtown using funds from the new owner + increased taxes on hotel rooms, rental cars, etc. Sell the naming rights to said stadium. Encourage & entice new hotels & places like ESPN Zone to take up residence in the area of the proposed new stadium. Build a high speed rail between Toronto & Buffalo.
 
Old 07-19-2009, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Buffalo :-)
2,988 posts, read 5,642,121 times
Reputation: 1349
Quote:
Originally Posted by jblake78728 View Post
So you are also against giving corporations tax breaks to move to WNY? Are you against all the jobs & prosperity they would bring as well?
This isn't something new, the Buffalo Bills have been here for as long as I can remember, the people have been taxed forever so they can stay here. I am not against jobs. I am against the Bills imposing a tax burden on the people of Erie County.

Quote:
Build a new stadium downtown using funds from the new owner + increased taxes on hotel rooms, rental cars, etc. Sell the naming rights to said stadium. Encourage & entice new hotels & places like ESPN Zone to take up residence in the area of the proposed new stadium. Build a high speed rail between Toronto & Buffalo.
We hardly have tourism in Buffalo now, and you think by increasing the taxes to stay overnight in the city will help? All these ideas will be more taxes added on to what we already have to pay for the Buffalo Bills. Build a new Stadium? I really don't care, as long as the Buffalo Bills aren't looking to put the taxpayers further into debt by making us pay for it. If they want a new stadium, they can pay for it themselves. Erie County will never prosper if the taxpayers are forced to carry the financial burden of a sports team.
 
Old 07-19-2009, 09:21 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Buffalo :-)
2,988 posts, read 5,642,121 times
Reputation: 1349
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krisps View Post
Fedup, I'm trying to have a rational argument with you. Give it a try (see, for example, Town&Country's posts). You think I see homelessness as entertainment? Wow. The more you write, the more clear your insanity becomes apparent. The more you use that ridiculous (and you know it) argument, the more idiotic you appear.

I will repeat, this all about your hatred of football and football fans.
The definition of an argument is having two opposing points of view. A discussion no longer stays rational when you call my point of view insanity and idiotic.

You are free to believe what you like of me/my opinions on the subject, but you will be believe it in the wrong context. For someone like you who I have to keep repeating my words, I don't care if the Bills stay or go, I want the burden lifted from the taxpayers who are forced to pay taxes to keep the Buffalo Bills here. The Bills can stay as long as they begin paying their own way for a change.
 
Old 07-19-2009, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Buffalo :-)
2,988 posts, read 5,642,121 times
Reputation: 1349
Quote:
Originally Posted by Town&Country View Post
I'll bet if someone went to Wegmans with a clipboard, and a simple yes or no answer to the question: "Are you a Bills fan?" (Not, are you worried about the taxes or anything like that), the clipboard would tilt to the answer "yes".
Why wouldn't you want a survey asking the question to taxpayers:
In these hard economic times in Erie County, Are you tired of being taxed for a football team?
It's a simple yes or no answer too. Maybe it would be shocking to know there are more people out there who have the same opinions as I.
 
Old 07-19-2009, 09:59 AM
 
989 posts, read 2,100,592 times
Reputation: 731
Quote:
Originally Posted by FedupWNY View Post
Why wouldn't you want a survey asking the question to taxpayers:
In these hard economic times in Erie County, Are you tired of being taxed for a football team?
It's a simple yes or no answer too. Maybe it would be shocking to know there are more people out there who have the same opinions as I.
Using your question the clipboard would tip to "No". The portion of the taxes paid on the Buffalo Bills is a drop in the bucket and that is one small bit of tax that people are actually willing to pay.

Do you or any other board member by chance have an actual dollar figure as to how much the team costs an average citizen for one year? $100.00? $300.00? I honestly don't know...
 
Old 07-19-2009, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Rochester, NY
1,293 posts, read 2,845,353 times
Reputation: 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Town&Country View Post
Using your question the clipboard would tip to "No". The portion of the taxes paid on the Buffalo Bills is a drop in the bucket and that is one small bit of tax that people are actually willing to pay.

Do you or any other board member by chance have an actual dollar figure as to how much the team costs an average citizen for one year? $100.00? $300.00? I honestly don't know...
I didn't know Google would do this (hopefully it is accurate)

Google - public data

So, estimated $7.35mill / year = $7350000.00

Estimated Erie county population = 909845

Estimated cost per taxpayer, not including businesses, etc = $8.08 / year
 
Old 07-19-2009, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Buffalo :-)
2,988 posts, read 5,642,121 times
Reputation: 1349
Quote:
Originally Posted by Town&Country View Post
Do you or any other board member by chance have an actual dollar figure as to how much the team costs an average citizen for one year? $100.00? $300.00? I honestly don't know...
The total from the Erie County Comptroller's office, first quarter 2009 (not saying what the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th quarters of this year will look like). More than $33 million was bonded for both Ralph Wilson Stadium and the HSBC Arena. When items are bonded, they have to be paid back, and with interest. Who's going to pay it? Not the Buffalo Bills or the Buffalo Sabres. The taxpayers will be bled for every dime to keep professional entertainment.

Edit: This is in addition to the Buffalo News Article (http://www.buffalonews.com/cityregion/story/552787.html - broken link) from earlier this year where subsidy tops $7.3 million.



It's sad because looking at the real numbers, more money goes for the Buffalo Bills than education at our community college.

Last edited by FedupWNY; 07-19-2009 at 11:15 AM..
 
Old 07-19-2009, 11:26 AM
 
989 posts, read 2,100,592 times
Reputation: 731
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheese9988 View Post
I didn't know Google would do this (hopefully it is accurate)

Google - public data

So, estimated $7.35mill / year = $7350000.00

Estimated Erie county population = 909845

Estimated cost per taxpayer, not including businesses, etc = $8.08 / year
Wow, lol... 8 dollars per taxpayer per year. Or, using fedup's link below, at 14 million or so for RWS only... 16 bucks per taxpayer per year.

This pretty much makes the tax part of the discussion null and void... about as much as heading up to Teds for lunch.

Thanks for clarifying that gentlemen
 
Old 07-19-2009, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Buffalo :-)
2,988 posts, read 5,642,121 times
Reputation: 1349
Quote:
Originally Posted by Town&Country View Post
Wow, lol... 8 dollars per taxpayer per year. Or, using fedup's link below, at 14 million or so for RWS only... 16 bucks per taxpayer per year.
Please note, the bond is just from the first quarter of this year (as the picture indicates), it's not out yet what the 2nd quarter was/is. Or what this 3rd quarter will be. Nothing reads more clearer than more than $33 million has been borrowed for sports entertainment in the first 3 months of 2009. The number can be broken down statistically any way you like, the total doesn't change of what taxpayers are being forced to pay for both the Sabres & the Bills.
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