How much longer will the Bills remain in Buffalo? (Rochester: college, live in)

[Canerican]

I'm really not as sure as I was about the Sabres having to move. If they can sell merchandise and sell out the arena, they will stay.

On the other hand the Whalers, Jets, and Nordiques were VERY popular, and had to move. It's hard to tell. The Sabres can only have so many saviors, and I would bet on Golaisano selling sooner than later, it's all a matter of what the new owner wants to do. The league really wants a team in the midwest... and it's not going to be Phoenix that will go to OKC, Tulsa, or Omaha.

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by Canerican

I'm really not as sure as I was about the Sabres having to move. If they can sell merchandise and sell out the arena, they will stay.

On the other hand the Whalers, Jets, and Nordiques were VERY popular, and had to move. It's hard to tell. The Sabres can only have so many saviors, and I would bet on Golaisano selling sooner than later, it's all a matter of what the new owner wants to do. The league really wants a team in the midwest... and it's not going to be Phoenix that will go to OKC, Tulsa, or Omaha.

Are you sure about Phoenix not moving? That team is bankrupt and seems to be on it's last leg there.

I think the Bills and the Sabres will be here for a while. Both get tremendous support not only from the immediate area, but from SW Ontario, the rest of WNY, CNY, the Southern Tier and NW Pennsylvania.

[jblake78728]

Originally Posted by Canerican

The league really wants a team in the midwest... and it's not going to be Phoenix that will go to OKC, Tulsa, or Omaha.

Where did you hear this? They have absolutely no interest in any of those cities. The only midwestern city they would even think about is Kansas City because they have a larger population, the potential for more corporate sponsorship & a new arena that meets NHL specifications. KC's biggest obstacle is that they have already lost an NHL & NBA team due to lack of interest which makes potential owners hesitant to try the area again. No one is moving an NHL team to Omaha, OKC or Tulsa anytime in the foreseeable future.

The Sabres are in no immediate danger of going anywhere. The league has too many other franchises with much more serious attendance issue to worry about. Phoenix, Florida, Nashville & maybe even Atlanta will be relocated long before anyone starts worrying about what the Sabres are doing.

The hockey in the desert experiment is done, the Coyotes will have a new home by the beginning of the 2010 season. I'd be amazed if they ended up in Hamilton though because even if Balsillie is able to purchase them the league would still have to approve any plans to move to the team. The league knows that they (along with the Leafs & Sabres) stand to make a whole lot more money by making Hamilton available as an expansion franchise than allowing someone to relocate there. I think it is more likely that the league may give in to allowing Balsillie to move them to Canada but only if it is back to Winnipeg.




As long as the fans continue to support the team the only way the NFL will allow a new owner to move the Bills is if they can show that the Ralph is outdated & the city/county/region/citizens refuse to help pay for a new stadium (which is a definite possibility but far from a foregone conclusion). There has already been talk of a new stadium being built near downtown as well as in between Buffalo & Niagara Falls (to make it more convenient for access from Southern Ontario). If this happens you can forget about the Bills leaving anytime soon.

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by jblake78728

Where did you hear this? They have absolutely no interest in any of those cities. The only midwestern city they would even think about is Kansas City because they have a larger population, the potential for more corporate sponsorship & a new arena that meets NHL specifications. KC's biggest obstacle is that they have already lost an NHL & NBA team due to lack of interest which makes potential owners hesitant to try the area again. No one is moving an NHL team to Omaha, OKC or Tulsa anytime in the foreseeable future.

The Sabres are in no immediate danger of going anywhere. The league has too many other franchises with much more serious attendance issue to worry about. Phoenix, Florida, Nashville & maybe even Atlanta will be relocated long before anyone starts worrying about what the Sabres are doing.

The hockey in the desert experiment is done, the Coyotes will have a new home by the beginning of the 2010 season. I'd be amazed if they ended up in Hamilton though because even if Balsillie is able to purchase the league would still have to approve any plans to move to the team. The league knows that they (along with the Leafs & Sabres) stand to make a whole lot more money by making Hamilton available as an expansion franchise than allowing someone to relocate there. I think it is more likely that the league may give in to allowing Balsillie to move them to Canada but only if it is back to Winnipeg.

All true and I agree about Winnipeg. I think that would make the most sense for a NHL franchise to move there with plenty of support waiting for them and just having another team in Canada.

[VegasRocks]

Originally Posted by jblake78728

Where did you hear this? They have absolutely no interest in any of those cities. The only midwestern city they would even think about is Kansas City because they have a larger population, the potential for more corporate sponsorship & a new arena that meets NHL specifications. KC's biggest obstacle is that they have already lost an NHL & NBA team due to lack of interest which makes potential owners hesitant to try the area again. No one is moving an NHL team to Omaha, OKC or Tulsa anytime in the foreseeable future.

The Sabres are in no immediate danger of going anywhere. The league has too many other franchises with much more serious attendance issue to worry about. Phoenix, Florida, Nashville & maybe even Atlanta will be relocated long before anyone starts worrying about what the Sabres are doing.

The hockey in the desert experiment is done, the Coyotes will have a new home by the beginning of the 2010 season. I'd be amazed if they ended up in Hamilton though because even if Balsillie is able to purchase them the league would still have to approve any plans to move to the team. The league knows that they (along with the Leafs & Sabres) stand to make a whole lot more money by making Hamilton available as an expansion franchise than allowing someone to relocate there. I think it is more likely that the league may give in to allowing Balsillie to move them to Canada but only if it is back to Winnipeg.




As long as the fans continue to support the team the only way the NFL will allow a new owner to move the Bills is if they can show that the Ralph is outdated & the city/county/region/citizens refuse to help pay for a new stadium (which is a definite possibility but far from a foregone conclusion). There has already been talk of a new stadium being built near downtown as well as in between Buffalo & Niagara Falls (to make it more convenient for access from Southern Ontario). If this happens you can forget about the Bills leaving anytime soon.

Coyotes are not going anywhere, well that's If the NHL wins the bid, Balsillie is throwing millions around, There are 4 other groups that wanted to buy the Coyotes and keep them in Glendale, But Balsillie & Moyes (current owner of Coyotes did everything posible to prevent that,
If the NHL wins, they will sell the team to one of them.

Moyes put the Coyotes in Bankruptcy behind the NHL's Back
This is something that Balsillie came up with to try to get a team in
Hamilton. plus they were poorly managed the team such as paying the great one 10 million a year to coach, Also the Coyotes having been a losing team and only made the playoffs once. Coyote's have a new incredible arena
at Westgate. also with Phoenix being the 5th bigest US city (soon to be the 4th after passing Houston in a couple of years) is a growing market
so many transplants from the Northeast & Midwest are already there & more are coming who are huge hockey fans, that will support a winner.

The only mistake was to build in Westgate in the West Valley
which is long drive from the East Valley, But they just announced
their building a new freeway called South Mountain Freeway which
will bypass Downtown Phoenix's congestion by going threw
South Mountain & Estrella Sierrra Mountains which will cut the travel the
time between the East & West Valleys in Half, Also their building
new major Interstate 11 only a few miles west of West Gate,

Vegas already has 2 groups that have the means to get a expansion
team, again their's lot of transplants from the Northeast & midwest etc...
Phoenix & Las Vegas are growing so fast, that just announced
there building a New interstate between Phoenix & Las Vagas
which be know as Interstate-11 & High speed rail is the works
modeled after the roadrunner system in New Mexico.

[jblake78728]

In the last 8 season the Coyotes has been 27th or below in attendance 5 times. Their highest ranking during that stretch was 19th (2004). It really doesn't matter how big the population is if there is no interest in the sport. The problem with trying to cater to a bunch of northern transplants is that many of those fans continue to support their hometown team & never fully embrace the team in their area. A great example of this can easily be witnessed by watching any Coyotes home game vs Chicago or Detroit as it is basically more of a home game for the Hawks & Wings than the Coyotes.

NHL Attendance Leaders - National Hockey League - ESPN


Moyes put the Coyotes in bankruptcy so he could void the terrible lease he had with the city of Glendale & make the team sellable. No one was willing to touch the Coyotes with that albatross of a lease hanging around their neck.

The other groups that wanted to buy the team & keep it in Phoenix have all fallen by the wayside. Reinsdorf was only offering a fraction of what Balsillie was. He claimed he was unable to get a favorable deal from the city of Glendale to make keeping the team in the area a viable option. He also claimed Moyes was an unwilling seller, I'd be unwilling too if I new I could get $75 million more from someone else. Ice Edge Holdings has also backed out (and previous to their bid for the Yotes they were putting together plans to try to bring an expansion team to the northern Toronto suburbs), and to be honest I'm not sure they were ever really a serious bidder. The NHL claimed that there were several bidders lined up to keep the team in Phoenix but none of these bids ever materialized. No one wants to buy the team if they have to keep it in that market. The only bid that is on the table (other than Balsillie's) is a bid from the NHL & even Bettman has recently admitted that moving the team from Winnipeg may have been a mistake. The only reason places like Phoenix, Atlanta, Miami & Nashville even got a team was because Bettman wanted to grow the sport in non traditional markets in an attempt to get a better TV contract ......... I think we all know how that worked out. One thing that the Sabres have going for them is that the NHL's ratings in WNY are among the highest in the US.

The NHL has definitely been kicking the tires regarding Vegas. The next US city to get a team will likely be Vegas or KC though Portland,Oregon has been recently mentioned as an option. Phoenix, Florida, Nashville, Atlanta & maybe the NY Islanders (if they don't get their new arena plans approved) may all be looking for new homes in the near future.

[Checkered24]

The league wants to keep the Sabres in Buffalo and viable. It isn't the richest of markets, but it is one of the best cities the NHL has for market penetration and that counts for something. Buffalo also generally scores the highest ratings for NHL broadcasts of any US city, including national games which do not include the Sabres.

It would be foolish for a league, who is struggling in so many US cities to gain a solid fanbase, to abandon one of their strongest markets.

[RS085]

Originally Posted by Checkered24

The league wants to keep the Sabres in Buffalo and viable. It isn't the richest of markets, but it is one of the best cities the NHL has for market penetration and that counts for something. Buffalo also generally scores the highest ratings for NHL broadcasts of any US city, including national games which do not include the Sabres.

It would be foolish for a league, who is struggling in so many US cities to gain a solid fanbase, to abandon one of their strongest markets.

A market that borders Canada, nonetheless. I think most forget that at LEAST 20% of support comes from just across the border.

I highly doubt Phoenix, Nashville and Florida would have the issues they currently do if they bordered Canada.

I think Buffalo gets a little bit too much credit for all things hockey considering this. When you border Canada, hockey is always relevant.

You want a real "hockeytown"? Try the Twin Cities.

As far as broadcasting goes, im not sure if this just accounts for Buffalo but cities like Utica and Albany, who arent Sabres markets (Rangers/Devils/Bruins) recently getting Sabres MSG feeds skews ratings. You have Rangers/Devils/Islanders and Bruins fans (yes Albany) watching MSG but instead of watching their home feed if the Rangers or Devils play the Sabres, theyre watching the Sabre feed. You have a majority of fans who are tuning in who are NOT Sabre fans, all because of a simple switch in the feed. This inflates Sabres ratings in these areas when it shouldnt. In actuality, they should be getting their rightful Rangers, Devils or Islanders feed.

[RS085]

Originally Posted by gonetoelpaso

that's different, buttman wanted a team down in south

False. It more had to do with finances, ie: a weakening Canadian dollar, which is an issue if youre paying your players in US.

It IS all dollars and cents. When it comes to the Bills or the Sabres. Luxury boxes keeps teams viable, and there isnt enough corporate support to go around, you can bet theyll find it elsewhere, regardless of fanbase.

Its happened before.

When the Bills move to Toronto, they will go from being one of the smallest markets to one of the biggest in one day.

[RS085]

Originally Posted by Town&Country

I have the Jets/Rams preseason game on, its in New Jersey... the place is half empty. The Bills preseason games and the regular season game are sold out. That says a lot... besides the fact that the Buffalo Bills are the only New York NFL team.

It says that all there is to do in Buffalo is go to pro sporting events. Other cities actually have other important things going on and come regular season, there is no question if games will sell out.

When you lose half of your population and economy, people tend to cling onto what they have left.

The Bills and Sabres are their only identity.

Also, do you have any idea that the Giants and Jets played in NY before they opted to move to much cheaper NJ?

The Meadowlands are closer to NY than Ralph Wilson Stadium is to Buffalo.