Trying to move back to Buffalo and no luck finding a job (house, living)

[xnyer]

Originally Posted by Canerican

I can take a stab at it. If you come back to WNY it will probably look pretty much as it did when you moved away.

While many cities have expanded, gotten new buildings, new businesses, and grown in population.

Buffalo has contracted, in a big way. The only major construction of the past 25 years was the M&T towers (an office park or a new courthouse are not "major").

Businesses have been leaving the area, because they can't succeed. You have to figure that with 5000 people leaving Erie County each year, that many businesses will just not be able to stay open.

People are leaving Buffalo left and right because they can't stand the idea of living in a town where NOTHING GOOD HAPPENS.

What major employers have come into Erie County, versus those who have left for good? The good jobs just aren't here. They have gone away, and aren't coming back. Now the blue collar jobs are trickling away, ostensibly to go down South, into a better business climate.

Truth be told, I don't like NoVa, but I can tell you that there are plenty of better towns. If you are feeling homesick, get a cottage, or go on vacation to WNY each year. I have a feeling that your homesickness will go away, and you will remember why you left.

I get a chance to talk to lots of people at my school who were born and raised in Buffalo, and their family lives here. I would say at less 3/4 are moving once they graduate.

I am far from a minority. Of all the people I talk to at my job, I would get that at least 1/4 of them are planning on leaving WNY by the time they retire.

You don't have to take my word for it, look at the census data. People are leaving faster here than in 99.7% of other cities in the nation.

***
Some posters will undoubtedly say "but good stuff is coming." They have been saying that for 35 years, and it hasn't. When the good things start happening, people will move back into WNY. Until you see growth, you would be better off staying away from the area.

I don't know you, and I have no reason to really care either way. But I am just so concerned that others might make the same mistake as I did, and move to WNY, and I honestly wouldn't want anyone else to have to go through the misery that is WNY.

Well said!!!!

[Sumermarie]

Originally Posted by Canerican

I actually have a good job. I am making $23,000 a year for part-time work. When I graduate I've been offered $51,000.

I'm not taking it. I don't care if I make less than that somewhere else. I would prefer make $40,000 and not have to live in Buffalo, than make $50k + in Buffalo.

***

I do have respect for UB, because it is a good school indeed, I just wish it wasn't in Buffalo. And being an immigrant, I am thankful for the opportunities that the US has given me. I am upset that Buffalo drags the mean downward.

It's sounds more like Buffalo doesn't fit your personality and that has nothing to do with the city but more of you finding a place you would be more comfortable calling home.

[Sumermarie]

I was going to pass by this post but out of curiousity I wanted to see if I could confirm what you are saying in pretty much every thread I see you post in.

I did a little internet research and here is what I found, you might take a look.

Originally Posted by Canerican

I can take a stab at it. If you come back to WNY it will probably look pretty much as it did when you moved away.

While many cities have expanded, gotten new buildings, new businesses, and grown in population.

Buffalo has contracted, in a big way. The only major construction of the past 25 years was the M&T towers (an office park or a new courthouse are not "major").

Currently under construction - A comprehensive list of developments in Downtown Buffalo, New York | ProjectBuffalo
Completed - Archive Completed | ProjectBuffalo
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Businesses have been leaving the area, because they can't succeed. You have to figure that with 5000 people leaving Erie County each year, that many businesses will just not be able to stay open.

http://www.city-data.com/us-cities/T...o-Economy.html

Concurrently, Buffalo has held on to some of its largest traditional employers (automotive parts manufacturers and the flour industry). The emphasis, however, has been on development of the "Byte Belt" of 700 high-tech companies in the region, with the Mayor's Information Technology Council encouraging the growth and sustenance of companies in the area. Buffalo is considered one of the most wired municipalities in the U.S., with extensive fiber optic networks that are attractive to the high-tech entrepreneur.

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People are leaving Buffalo left and right because they can't stand the idea of living in a town where NOTHING GOOD HAPPENS.

This is subjective and dependent on your definition of "good". This is based on your own personal likes and beliefs. I imagine for someone who enjoys the art scene, for example, Buffalo is actually a great place to call home.

So unfortunately, unless I knew what you personally like there is no way to dispute or state your opinion as fact.
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What major employers have come into Erie County, versus those who have left for good? The good jobs just aren't here. They have gone away, and aren't coming back. Now the blue collar jobs are trickling away, ostensibly to go down South, into a better business climate.

Again, everything I'm reading is to contrary of what you state. While I do see an unemployment rate of 8.6%, Buffalo is 159 out of 372 major cities in the US, that's hardly the worst.

Unemployment Rates for Metropolitan Areas

I would also read the section under Development Projects.

http://www.city-data.com/us-cities/T...o-Economy.html

Health-related industries have become the fuel in Buffalo's economic engine. The Roswell Park Cancer Institute, which works in partnership with the University at Buffalo, is in the process of building a $60 million research facility that will add 170,000 square feet of space in which scientists will study genetics and pharmacology. In the summer of 2005, Contract Pharmaceuticals Limited decided to locate in Buffalo and will be taking over the Bristol-Myers Squibb Company facility. The packager of prescription and over-the-counter medicines will continue to contract with Bristol-Myers. As part of the Queen City Hub plan proposed by the city of Buffalo, $100 million will be poured into the new headquarters of HealthNow New York, a healthcare insurance and referral company.

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Truth be told, I don't like NoVa, but I can tell you that there are plenty of better towns. If you are feeling homesick, get a cottage, or go on vacation to WNY each year. I have a feeling that your homesickness will go away, and you will remember why you left.

I get a chance to talk to lots of people at my school who were born and raised in Buffalo, and their family lives here. I would say at less 3/4 are moving once they graduate.

Again, subjective opinions. Many children after they graduate try to find a job where their degree is hoping! It's just smart job hunting. If they are leaving Buffalo because they can't wait to get out, that has nothing to do with jobs available (you yourself stated you could make $51K a year there) and everything to do with their preference and want to see new places, explore their horizons.

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I am far from a minority. Of all the people I talk to at my job, I would get that at least 1/4 of them are planning on leaving WNY by the time they retire.

Retirement in itself affects every city, every where in the country. That isn't a Buffalo thing, lots of people move somewhere else when they retire.
Why do you think Florida is so popular?
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You don't have to take my word for it, look at the census data. People are leaving faster here than in 99.7% of other cities in the nation.

This is false, according the census data that you have referred me to, Buffalo is bad, but certainly not the worst and definitely not declining faster than 99.7% of the nation.

I tried finding a comparison to the rest of the nation and while I found many more states with a higher percentage of population loss I couldn't find anything that compared by major metropolitan cities.

I did confirm that the city is losing population, yes, but the metro area however, not so much.

Some WNY areas will ring in population changes in the new year. The latest Business First population estimates show that 28 WNY areas will hit population milestones by April 1st. Tonawanda is first. Researchers say it's population will slip below 71,000 on New Year's Eve for the first time since the 1950s. Buffalo is expected to drop to 268,900 residents on January 2nd. Some areas like Alfred, Amherst, Clarence, Lancaster and Wheatfield are expected to gain residents.

2009 Population Predictions | WKBW - TV Buffalo, New York | Business First

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Some posters will undoubtedly say "but good stuff is coming." They have been saying that for 35 years, and it hasn't. When the good things start happening, people will move back into WNY. Until you see growth, you would be better off staying away from the area.

Again, false, please see the links above that list the current construction going on downtown.
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I don't know you, and I have no reason to really care either way. But I am just so concerned that others might make the same mistake as I did, and move to WNY, and I honestly wouldn't want anyone else to have to go through the misery that is WNY.

So it's not that WNY is miserable, it's that WNY is miserable to you.

I think it's easy to make assumptions about places before you actually do the research. Even living somewhere you don't see everything going on around you.

Out of everything you said the only thing I could really confirm is that people are leaving the city but even when I checked out other major cities across the country, Buffalo is no worse and sometimes better than those areas as well.

[Checkered24]

Dare I interject an opinion?

Sure, why not!

Although I think Canerican sometimes paints a worse picture than is really warranted about this area, he isn't always far off base.

Buffalo is not an easy city for the average person to find a good paying job. Businesses are generally not growing, the economy is generally in decline, and people are leaving. Taxes are compartively high. Yes, there are examples of growth, and progress. People with certain skills and abilities might find it far easier to find a job than others. Some people even enjoy the snow! (not me!).

Ultimately, Buffalo is not for everyone. For the right individuals, it will be a great fit. That's been a dwindling group for 30+ years, but there are still lots of folks who like the area, enjoy what it has to offer, and live comfortably.

[Canerican]

Originally Posted by Checkered24

Ultimately, Buffalo is not for everyone. For the right individuals, it will be a great fit. That's been a dwindling group for 30+ years, but there are still lots of folks who like the area, enjoy what it has to offer, and live comfortably.

YES! Great post!

That's all I want to say is that while 90% of posters here have only good things to say about Buffalo (they ignore the bad), I point out more bad than good, so as to give Buffalo a more balanced view to someone who doesn't know otherwise.

Do I think Buffalo is good for some? Of course. If you are a young Liberal artsy type, I would bet that Buffalo would be in your top 5 cities (it would be in mine). If you are looking for a place to go to school and you don't want a tiny city like Burlington, Plattsburgh, or Williamsport, and not a huge city like NYC, or Austin, I think that Buffalo should be in your top 10.

If you are planning on starting a family, are slightly Conservative, or are looking for a decent white collar job - I would run far and run fast.

[Sumermarie]

Originally Posted by Checkered24

Dare I interject an opinion?

Sure, why not!

Although I think Canerican sometimes paints a worse picture than is really warranted about this area, he isn't always far off base.

Buffalo is not an easy city for the average person to find a good paying job. Businesses are generally not growing, the economy is generally in decline, and people are leaving. Taxes are compartively high. Yes, there are examples of growth, and progress. People with certain skills and abilities might find it far easier to find a job than others. Some people even enjoy the snow! (not me!).

Ultimately, Buffalo is not for everyone. For the right individuals, it will be a great fit. That's been a dwindling group for 30+ years, but there are still lots of folks who like the area, enjoy what it has to offer, and live comfortably.

Thank you for this well balanced post, I appreciate all aspects of what Buffalo has to offer, this is a great example of how information can be presented without having to resort to name calling or defensive jabbering.

Originally Posted by jblake78728

This is pretty much spot on. It only takes reading a few of his posts to realize that he is as far right as possibly in both his religious & political beliefs. Because of his beliefs he is in the minority in this region. Some of his criticisms are fair many are blown out of proportion & others are based solely on his personal beliefs & how the area doesn't fit them. After reading them over & over again on pretty much every thread, all are getting very old.

I would just like to know how Canerican can continually get away with attacking & personally insulting anyone that dares call him out on his never ending negativity. He loves to attack the intelligence of anyone that backs him into a corner (like you did by calling him on his bs & providing links to refute his false claims).

Stay classy Canerican

This is about the 4th time he's done this in the past week, I think the moderators need to stop playing favorites with him & take action.

There's one in every group, all you can do is report them and hope for the best. I do find it unfortunate that in my short time here I have already had to utilize the ignore feature but such is life. Even so, if I decide to move to Buffalo it won't be until the spring and thankfully 8 months will have already passed at that time.

[Canerican]

I used the ignore function too. Unfortunately I have to read jblake's posts when people quote him though.

Ugh. So jblake, what are the other 4 times I did "this" in the past week? I'm glad you have the time to keep track of my posts.

Even so, if I decide to move to Buffalo it won't be until the spring and thankfully 8 months will have already passed at that time.

Why is that? Buffalo is a big city (well, it might still be considered a big city by the time you move here). You probably wouldn't see me (well, that might be a lie, I was one of those folks protesting gay marriage on NFB and Sheridan - got lots of support BTW, and lots of folks mentioned that they saw me)

[Vex]

I tend to agree with Canerican - he makes very legitimate points, although he often exaggerates them ;D

Here's my take on Buffalo:
Buffalo is a city with tons of potential. The people are great, summers are beautiful, and homes are full of history and rich character. Buffalo is a great place to live for the following people: 1) Government Workers 2) Those in Health care 3) People content with 'having enough' (you can live comfortably on a modest wage) and 4) People looking to milk the system for all it's worth

However, for people who are career oriented and would like to realize their potential through advancement in the business world (people like myself) Buffalo is not a match. Buffalo is not a good place for companies to do business. The things that lead to Buffalo's rise - low taxes, strategic location, non-union labor - are no longer true. Quite simply, there is no compelling reason for companies to come to Buffalo. For this reason, I believe that the local economy will continue to deteriorate, and with it, the opportunities for young professionals such as myself.

Furthermore, with that deterioration will come higher taxes as the region struggles to pay its bloated health care and pension liabilities (which are severely underfunded at present.) I believe New York State as a whole will suffer this fate, prompting increases in state income and sales taxes. This in turn will prompt more companies/residents/talent to relocate, further shrinking the tax base. In short, I believe that Buffalo and NYS as a whole are in the midst of a death spiral and will continue to decline unless reform is made in the following areas: (which won't happen)

1) Smaller/More efficient government
2) A rejection of Unions
3) LOWER TAXES
4) Reforms made to compensation packages of government employees: After 20 years of working a cushy job these people can retire and make 75% of their pay and keep full (overly generous) health benefits? How about they switch to a defined contribution or 401k plan like the rest of the US?

I'll be looking to relocate from Buffalo for the above reasons. I regret this, as despite all its problems, I love Buffalo.

[Sumermarie]

^Thank you, your post was very well done.

I'm a little concerned with the lack of opportunities available, I don't need to be the president of a company but I would like to grow as a professional.

[jblake78728]

Originally Posted by Vex

I tend to agree with Canerican - he makes very legitimate points, although he often exaggerates them ;D

Here's my take on Buffalo:
Buffalo is a city with tons of potential. The people are great, summers are beautiful, and homes are full of history and rich character. Buffalo is a great place to live for the following people: 1) Government Workers 2) Those in Health care 3) People content with 'having enough' (you can live comfortably on a modest wage) and 4) People looking to milk the system for all it's worth

However, for people who are career oriented and would like to realize their potential through advancement in the business world (people like myself) Buffalo is not a match. Buffalo is not a good place for companies to do business. The things that lead to Buffalo's rise - low taxes, strategic location, non-union labor - are no longer true. Quite simply, there is no compelling reason for companies to come to Buffalo. For this reason, I believe that the local economy will continue to deteriorate, and with it, the opportunities for young professionals such as myself.

Furthermore, with that deterioration will come higher taxes as the region struggles to pay its bloated health care and pension liabilities (which are severely underfunded at present.) I believe New York State as a whole will suffer this fate, prompting increases in state income and sales taxes. This in turn will prompt more companies/residents/talent to relocate, further shrinking the tax base. In short, I believe that Buffalo and NYS as a whole are in the midst of a death spiral and will continue to decline unless reform is made in the following areas: (which won't happen)

1) Smaller/More efficient government
2) A rejection of Unions
3) LOWER TAXES
4) Reforms made to compensation packages of government employees: After 20 years of working a cushy job these people can retire and make 75% of their pay and keep full (overly generous) health benefits? How about they switch to a defined contribution or 401k plan like the rest of the US?

I'll be looking to relocate from Buffalo for the above reasons. I regret this, as despite all its problems, I love Buffalo.

The problem with Canerican isn't usually with what he says but in the way that he says it as well as the fact that he can't accept/understand differing opinions as to why someone would actually want to live here & will go out of his way to run down the area as well as attack anyone who see's any good in the region.