Salary/Standard of Living Question (New York, Buffalo: insurance, crime, buying)

[Canerican]

Originally Posted by sabredrew

I'm glad to hear this, since you constantly hear about the property tax rates in WNY. I always figured it was something to consider, but I had a sense that it seemed to be overblown by many people. Nice to hear that someone else more in the know than I am agrees with me.

Well think about it, if you make $65000, income taxes will take about $15000 (including SS, federal, and state). Consider that New York has the has health insurance rates because we are so highly regulated, so eat another $12000 for the two of you (that is the average here). Take away $5000 for water, school, and property taxes (if you get a less than average house, many people pay that for just school taxes)

Add another $1000 for other taxes and fees which they always get you with. You are down to $32,000.

If you even lived just South of US, in Erie County, PA, you would only pay $9000 for health, $13,000 in income taxes, $2500 in property taxes and $500 in other taxes, and you've got $39,000.

Maybe you absolutely love Buffalo. But Erie, PA has similar housing prices, and taxes are way less, so you can't say "taxes are more here but housing is way less." You could have another $7000 in you pocket living there (not to mention average salaries are a touch higher).

Is living in Buffalo worth at least $7000 to you? Maybe it is, but don't let anyone tell you taxes are low, they are the highest in the country here in NY, and Erie county has the 4th highest county level taxes in the state.

Why do you think all of the businesses are relocating? It's not because the Bills are doing bad. It's because the CEOs don't feel like having half their income confiscated, and they can't justify staying in Buffalo only for the cheap labor (just as you can't justify staying in Buffalo for the cheap housing).

[jblake78728]

Originally Posted by Canerican

Take away $5000 for water, school, and property taxes (if you get a less than average house, many people pay that for just school taxes)

I'm wondering what exactly you consider an average or less than average house? To me you can get a decent house across much of the metro area for $100K or a little above. The only areas that have a combined property/school tax above $4000/$100K assessed value are Lackawanna, some of Cheektowaga (mostly areas that are within the Williamsville, Cheektowaga-Sloan, Cleveland Hill & Depew school districts), Sloan, Depew, Kenmore, some of Tonawanda & the part of West Seneca that lies within Cheektowaga-Sloan school district. I guess if you are basing these figures strictly on the Williamsville area (as well as most of the better areas of Amherst) it would be true (as combined tax rates are a little under $3500/100K & it would be nearly impossible to find a $100K house in Williamsville) but its certainly not true of the whole metro area (or even most of it).

Originally Posted by Canerican

If you even lived just South of US, in Erie County, PA, you would only pay $9000 for health, $13,000 in income taxes, $2500 in property taxes and $500 in other taxes, and you've got $39,000.

Maybe you absolutely love Buffalo. But Erie, PA has similar housing prices, and taxes are way less, so you can't say "taxes are more here but housing is way less." You could have another $7000 in you pocket living there (not to mention average salaries are a touch higher).

Is living in Buffalo worth at least $7000 to you? Maybe it is, but don't let anyone tell you taxes are low, they are the highest in the country here in NY, and Erie county has the 4th highest county level taxes in the state.

Why do you think all of the businesses are relocating? It's not because the Bills are doing bad. It's because the CEOs don't feel like having half their income confiscated, and they can't justify staying in Buffalo only for the cheap labor (just as you can't justify staying in Buffalo for the cheap housing).

I see that your hate for Buffalo has once again resurfaced in the form of flat out lies. Telling someone that they would be better in Erie reminds me of when you were telling people to look into Toledo instead of Buffalo.

The City of Erie's tax rate is around $3200 per $100K assessed value. Many of its outlying/rural areas are around $2500/100K. These numbers are similar to the rates in Hamburg, Orchard Park, East Aurora, Wales, Boston, Alden, Eden, much of Lancaster & even the city of Buffalo itself.

[Sumermarie]

Originally Posted by jblake78728

I'm wondering what exactly you consider an average or less than average house? To me you can get a decent house across much of the metro area for $100K or a little above. The only areas that have a combined property/school tax above $4000/$100K assessed value are Lackawanna, some of Cheektowaga (mostly areas that are within the Williamsville, Cheektowaga-Sloan, Cleveland Hill & Depew school districts), Sloan, Depew, Kenmore, some of Tonawanda & the part of West Seneca that lies within Cheektowaga-Sloan school district. I guess if you are basing these figures strictly on the Williamsville area (as well as most of the better areas of Amherst) it would be true (as combined tax rates are a little under $3500/100K & it would be nearly impossible to find a $100K house in Williamsville) but its certainly not true of the whole metro area (or even most of it).

It's all about perception, sometimes people see things they want to see. It all goes back to whether you are a positive person who looks for the best in the things or a negative person who looks for the worst. I'm sure SOMEWHERE in the Buffalo area you can find something that works for you, it's being realistic with what your family makes and your abilities.

[jblake78728]

Originally Posted by Sumermarie

It's all about perception, sometimes people see things they want to see. It all goes back to whether you are a positive person who looks for the best in the things or a negative person who looks for the worst. I'm sure SOMEWHERE in the Buffalo area you can find something that works for you, it's being realistic with what your family makes and your abilities.

Well said & its unfortunate that some people will never get that.

[coppersink63]

Originally Posted by Canerican

Well think about it, if you make $65000, income taxes will take about $15000 (including SS, federal, and state). Consider that New York has the has health insurance rates because we are so highly regulated, so eat another $12000 for the two of you (that is the average here). Take away $5000 for water, school, and property taxes (if you get a less than average house, many people pay that for just school taxes)

Add another $1000 for other taxes and fees which they always get you with. You are down to $32,000.

If you even lived just South of US, in Erie County, PA, you would only pay $9000 for health, $13,000 in income taxes, $2500 in property taxes and $500 in other taxes, and you've got $39,000.

Maybe you absolutely love Buffalo. But Erie, PA has similar housing prices, and taxes are way less, so you can't say "taxes are more here but housing is way less." You could have another $7000 in you pocket living there (not to mention average salaries are a touch higher).

Is living in Buffalo worth at least $7000 to you? Maybe it is, but don't let anyone tell you taxes are low, they are the highest in the country here in NY, and Erie county has the 4th highest county level taxes in the state.

Why do you think all of the businesses are relocating? It's not because the Bills are doing bad. It's because the CEOs don't feel like having half their income confiscated, and they can't justify staying in Buffalo only for the cheap labor (just as you can't justify staying in Buffalo for the cheap housing).

Do you even look this stuff up before you post?

http://www.allbusiness.com/labor-emp...1835152-1.html

"The region's 0.7 percent annualized job growth rate was more than double the sluggish statewide pace of 0.3 percent as job creation across most of New York slowed. The region's job market also grew faster than the national employment market, which was flat in June, for the third straight month."

Do your research buddy.

[UpstaterInBklyn]

To expand on the numerical analysis:

The difference between NY and PA income tax on a $65K income is actually about $1400 (not $2000).

And where did a $3000 difference for health insurance come from? Depending on the employer, the health insurance costs could be more or less but would likely be close to equal for the same job title. In professional-level private sector employment there isn't a lot of variation in health insurance benefit out-of-pocket costs. When there is, it is usually based more on factors like the size of the company rather than the geographic location.

Also, what is the breakdown of "$1000 for other taxes and fees which they always get you with" vs. $500 in PA?

Someone here was accusing others of making up numbers. Hmmm.....

[Canerican]

Originally Posted by UpstaterInBklyn

The difference between NY and PA income tax on a $65K income is actually about $1400 (not $2000).

Nope I was right. The difference is $2050

EDIT: PA income tax is 3.07%, therefore $2405

In NY it is 6.85% over $20,000 there $4452.

http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/l...axrate_NY.html
http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/l...axrate_PA.html

And where did a $3000 difference for health insurance come from?

AHIP Center for Policy and Research: 2007 Health Insurance: Overview and Economic Impact in the States

Depending on the employer, the health insurance costs could be more or less but would likely be close to equal for the same job title.

Sure, but the company doesn't just pay more, they either make you pay the addition premium, take other benefits away, or take salary away to cover higher costs in NY.

Also, what is the breakdown of "$1000 for other taxes and fees which they always get you with" vs. $500 in PA?

I based it on the cost of cigarette taxes, gas taxes, getting a pistol permit, getting a driver's license, sales taxes, and carbonated beverage container deposits. It was generally double or more in PA, but I had to just ballpark it. Even if you take this away, you still make more in PA.

http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/fees/index.shtml
http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/cigarett.html
http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/245.html
http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbys...gunlaws_pa.htm

(NOTE: Pistol permit costs are particularly egregious in NY, it cost me about $200 to do the whole application, in PA, it costs about $5)
Cigarette taxes aren't so different... But look at the rest they are all about double. I may have actually underestimated the magnitude of the extra costs in NY.

Someone here was accusing others of making up numbers. Hmmm.....

Maybe you should have given me a change to backup my claims (as I always do) before sending that accusation my way (lest you embarrass yourself)

The fact is that I have never made up a statistic (I don't have to as NY makes it pretty easy to prove how bad it is).

If someone on the streets told you that Buffalo had low taxes you would probably laugh at them, yet for some reason rationality seems to walk out the door each time a couple members here log onto C-D.

[coppersink63]

http://www.portfolio.com/interactive...om-2008-2009/#

Also check it out, in 2009 we are up to ranked 35th in the country up from 77th last year at this time as per unemployment ratings per city. Thats an over 45 point jump! Buffalo is definatly doing better and people are going to notice.

[Canerican]

Yes... the rest of the country went down more than Buffalo. I could have told you that.

The problem isn't jobs as much as it is GOOD jobs.

Besides we're 35th out of 100. Look next year, we will be back around 70th when the financial and construction sectors bounce back.

[coppersink63]

Originally Posted by Canerican

Yes... the rest of the country went down more than Buffalo. I could have told you that.

The problem isn't jobs as much as it is GOOD jobs.

Besides we're 35th out of 100. Look next year, we will be back around 70th when the financial and construction sectors bounce back.

Again predicting gloom when we are looking at positive news dosent really hold water.

http://www.wgrz.com/news/local/story...70576&catid=13

"The numbers indicate that while economic growth slowed or reversed in two-thirds of local economies last year, it actually grew --despite the onset of a recession --by 1.3% in the Buffalo-Niagara region.

Further, Buffalo Niagara is one of the relatively few metropolitan areas whose GDP grew in each of the last three years for which statistics are available.

The numbers also indicate that while Buffalo Niagara's GDP grew slightly in 2008, the GDP of several communities which typically lead the nation in growth, including Phoenix, AZ Atlanta, GA Las Vegas, NV and Charlotte, NC, fell.

The news came as no surprise to Andrew Rudnick, CEO of the Buffalo Niagara Partnership, an agency which concerns itself with local job growth and economic investment. "