Cost of living comparisons (Buffalo, Rochester: 2011, foreclosures, condo)

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by Canerican

That's OK. So am I, I think the South was 100% right to secede.



So what?



That's fine, I am moving into someone else's town, I don't expect them all to adapt to my lifestyle.



Fine. Then you ought to tell this to people planning on moving to Buffalo as well.



I have a car and a truck. I have never and probably would never take a bus.



And in the north everything freezes and thaws causing cracks... Not all homes in the south are cheaply built. That's a ridiculous statement. The houses in the north are no better than those in the south.



You have to get a hunting license in NY too. At any rate I don't hunt, so that really doesn't bug me. At least in Texas I'll be able to own a pistol (without insane restrictions and fees), unlike in NY.



Versus the White trash here in Buffalo. I would prefer have my race be the one that is better off... I have found in the South that the Blacks are actually far better off, more educated, and certainly more polite than here -- but so are the Whites.

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You're seriously still on this one? The south is never higher taxwise than New York. Get over it.

I love how you continue to forget the part about fees. Yes, you do have taxes on possessions like your vehicles in Virginia. I know states in other regions like, Indiana has this and I believe other states do as well.

Also, there are Black folks doing well in the Buffalo area too. Considering the different dynamics in terms of institutions in the South and that 55% of the Black people in the US live in "the South", that isn't surprising. Quite a few of those Blacks in the South come from states like NY, MI, PA and Ohio, among others too.

I'm not sure about Whites being nicer in the South.

[jblake78728]

You have to get a hunting license in NY too. At any rate I don't hunt, so that really doesn't bug me. At least in Texas I'll be able to own a pistol (without insane restrictions and fees), unlike in NY.

A deer lease has nothing to do with a hunting license. Its a patch of land that you rent to hunt on (or use as a private shooting range) a few weeks a year (usually for thousands for $$$'s/year). As was previously stated, most land in Texas is privately owned so unless you have a family member or friend who owns land that can be hunted this is the only way many people can hunt.

[Canerican]

Originally Posted by ckhthankgod

I love how you continue to forget the part about fees. Yes, you do have taxes on possessions like your vehicles in Virginia. I know states in other regions like, Indiana has this and I believe other states do as well.

I KNOW! They include those in the total taxes. It's not that complicated, what don't you get about it?

This includes the average of ALL taxes paid. I'm not ignoring anything, I swear I've linked to this site at least 10 times. It includes the taxes you pay for all property, income, EVERYTHING.

Honestly, what will it take for you to believe that Buffalo's taxes are higher that Virginia for instance? People have sent you link after link and all you say is, "but there are fees on vehicles."

The chart I am linking to has that included. I have no idea how you have managed not to figure this out by now.

In terms of TOTAL taxes paid NY has been the higher every year since 1978 except 1998, 2006-2008.

The Tax Foundation - State and Local Tax Burdens: All Years, One State, 1977-2008

[HowardRoarke]

If Upstate, NY, is so grand, then why are people still moving away in droves?

Blacks in the South make more money than they would in any other part of the U.S. This is documented fact. Workplaces down here are not segregated like they are in, ahem, Upstate, NY. Down here you're more likely to work in a "diverse" workplace than anywhere in Upstate, outside academia and university labs.

The most segregated metros are in the North, in fact Buffalo was in the top 3, last I checked, right up there with Chicago. I have never, ever, in all my years of travel for work and pleasure witnessed a more "racially aware", place as Buffalo, NY, and that's putting it lightly. The question "Well, what ARE ya???", still comes up in regular conversation in that town. I've experienced this among many locals, there, of various backgrounds and social strata.

"I dunno, typical Buffalonian, human? American?". Yeah, keep rootin' for those Bills, dude, and pining for the days way back when Buffalo was booming, which was the 1950's (around the time it started to decline).

Meanwhile, my uncle moved from there to Ft. Lauderdale 25 years ago, and he's a millionaire. Other folks of his generation moved to TX, and many other places, and made fortunes, whereas they never would have enjoyed a fraction of that success in Buffalo, NY.

Buffalo is a BIG connections town, and has been for some time. So, if you're an outsider, watch out. Rochester is like this, too, but it's slightly more subtle, there. Down here, generally nobody cares about who you know and whatnot, how many vowels somebody has in their name, etc.

Nobody cares about that garbage, down here. Skills? Education? Experience? Interview went well and they thought you might be a "good fit"? You're hired!

Raleigh, NC, is affluent. Buffalo, NY, is not. Charlotte, NC, has affluence. Buffalo, NY, doesn't have nearly as much. Dallas, TX, is affluent. Buffalo is not, in comparison. Houston, TX, continues to boom. Buffalo is in a perma-recession.

Cost of living indicators only tell part of the story. Tell Joe or Jane laid off Upstate NYer what they think of the cost of living, there, and get back to me. When they're eating ramen after 18 months on unemployment, while still paying their mortgage and $7K/yr. in property taxes on a post-war house, the rest of us in America are in stable jobs and living in nice houses, not sweating a thing. Maybe not all of us right now, but, a higher % than that of Upstate, NY. NY people get worked up about the dumbest stuff, these days, things people elsewhere wouldn't sweat.

Must be the stress and the taxes.

I know of noone who is in a big hurry to move to NY, back to NY, etc.


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[jblake78728]

Originally Posted by HowardRoarke

Cost of living indicators only tell part of the story. Tell Joe or Jane laid off Upstate NYer what they think of the cost of living, there, and get back to me. When they're eating ramen after 18 months on unemployment, while still paying their mortgage and $7K/yr. in property taxes on a post-war house, the rest of us in America are in stable jobs and living in nice houses, not sweating a thing. Maybe not all of us right now, but, a higher % than that of Upstate, NY. NY people get worked up about the dumbest stuff, these days, things people elsewhere wouldn't sweat.

That's a good point that you made but you are pointing your finger in the wrong direction. Do you even know what the unemployment rate is in your own state of South Carolina? NY's unemployment rate is 8.8% & Buffalo's is 8.4%, not great but a lot better than many areas during this tough economic stretch. On the other hand, the Carolina's, Georgia, Florida & Tennessee all have a rate still in the double digits. I wonder how many former NY's that have moved to these states thinking it was a greener pasture are now stuck there because they are out of work & broke? I wonder how many have gone through foreclosure in the last 18 months?

Raleigh, NC, is affluent. Buffalo, NY, is not. Charlotte, NC, has affluence. Buffalo, NY, doesn't have nearly as much. Dallas, TX, is affluent. Buffalo is not, in comparison. Houston, TX, continues to boom. Buffalo is in a perma-recession.

Buffalo metro has many affluent areas. To claim it does not shows either your complete lack of knowledge of the current make up of the area or you are blinded by your dislike.

The most segregated metros are in the North, in fact Buffalo was in the top 3, last I checked, right up there with Chicago. I have never, ever, in all my years of travel for work and pleasure witnessed a more "racially aware", place as Buffalo, NY, and that's putting it lightly. The question "Well, what ARE ya???", still comes up in regular conversation in that town. I've experienced this among many locals, there, of various backgrounds and social strata.

Ever been to Dallas? Houston? Austin? Each of these cities have neighborhoods split along racial lines. In fact the city of Dallas is pretty much split in half ..... north side for whites, south side for minorities.

[Canerican]

Hey I have an idea, let's pick the Southern states with the worst unemployment and compare them to Buffalo!

Nevermind the fact that when the rest of the country recovers Buffalo will have a higher than average unemployment again (as it did before the recession).

Good post Howard. BTW, Greenville is in my top 5 cities to move to, along with Lexington, Knoxville, Nashville, and Charlotte.

[jblake78728]

Originally Posted by Canerican

Hey I have an idea, let's pick the Southern states with the worst unemployment and compare them to Buffalo!

Actually I picked the posters homes state (SC) & the 4 states in his general area, which other than Virginia (who's unemployment rate should always be decent due to its proximity to DC & large percentage of government workers) also happen to be the 5 most likely places in the south that someone from NY relocated to.

........ but since you brought it up, Kentucky (even though I personally don't consider it any more southern than WV, Indiana or Ohio but I get the feeling that you do) & Alabama are over 10.5% while Arkansas is doing well (6.8%). Mississippi & Missouri are over 9%, Louisiana is just above 8%.

So that leaves us with exactly 3 southern states (Louisiana, Arkansas & Virginia) that have a lower unemployment rate than NY ............ and 9 that are worse.

I suppose Texas could be included on the list as a southern state with a slightly better unemployment rate than NY (8.1%) but in reality different parts of Texas fall into different regions of the country & as any good Texan will tell you ...... Texas isn't southern or southwestern, its Texas!

[Canerican]

I forgot how nice it is when the private sector lays people off, they can just "work" for the state.

Unfortunately for those living in the South most states don't employ nearly the number NY does. I have a feeling if you take away public jobs, unemployment is pretty close.

[jblake78728]

Originally Posted by Canerican

Unfortunately for those living in the South most states don't employ nearly the number NY does.

Outside of Florida those states don't have the population NY has either so they shouldn't have anywhere near the public jobs.

NY has 2x's the population of Georgia & NC, 3x's more than Missouri & Tennessee, 4x's more than SC, Kentucky, Alabama & Louisiana and 7x's more than Mississippi & Arkansas. I'd love to see the percentage of public sector positions vs total citizens stat, I think the %'s would be a lot closer than what you believe.

[cheese9988]

Originally Posted by Canerican

I KNOW! They include those in the total taxes. It's not that complicated, what don't you get about it?

This includes the average of ALL taxes paid. I'm not ignoring anything, I swear I've linked to this site at least 10 times. It includes the taxes you pay for all property, income, EVERYTHING.

Honestly, what will it take for you to believe that Buffalo's taxes are higher that Virginia for instance? People have sent you link after link and all you say is, "but there are fees on vehicles."

The chart I am linking to has that included. I have no idea how you have managed not to figure this out by now.

In terms of TOTAL taxes paid NY has been the higher every year since 1978 except 1998, 2006-2008.

The Tax Foundation - State and Local Tax Burdens: All Years, One State, 1977-2008

How anybody could deny that taxes are high up here is beyond me.

Blacks in the South make more money than they would in any other part of the U.S. This is documented fact. Workplaces down here are not segregated like they are in, ahem, Upstate, NY. Down here you're more likely to work in a "diverse" workplace than anywhere in Upstate, outside academia and university labs.

The most segregated metros are in the North, in fact Buffalo was in the top 3, last I checked, right up there with Chicago. I have never, ever, in all my years of travel for work and pleasure witnessed a more "racially aware", place as Buffalo, NY, and that's putting it lightly. The question "Well, what ARE ya???", still comes up in regular conversation in that town. I've experienced this among many locals, there, of various backgrounds and social strata.

This came up in the Rochester forum a number of months ago. And the more I think about this, the more I find out it is the truth. I have people here in Greece telling me they now want to move out because the "trash" are moving in. I had a guy tell me the other day that he won't ride the bus because he would have to sit next to "those" people. Then there are the radio stations making fun of the slang. Someone sees one black man walking down the street, and it is automatically a bad place.

And I know of many who are afraid to come to the city just because of blacks. Those same people couldn't name two neighborhoods in the city and therefore have no experience with city living. I live in the city next to a black family. I can tell you, her kids are better behaved than most of the white kids I know. That mother says one word and the kids are in the house, no talking back, no questions asked.

These same situations were in Buffalo when I was there. We all know there really are trash and crime in our cities. But the citizens, in general, put a wide label on everyone.

Ya the cost of living is great up here, mainly because of housing. But keep in mind this is all relative to the job you have. You may be doing ok, but what about the other 250k residents in the city? Its time to stop denying the problems in upstate NY and and do something about it.