Cost of living comparisons (home, people, used)

[RocketSci]

Originally Posted by Canerican

In SC, pretty much every city except Charleston is less expensive than Buffalo, and Charleston isn't much more expensive.

There is the stupid circle that we always debate.

Buffalo's taxes are high -->

But other states have usage fees -->

They are still lower as an aggregate than Buffalo -->

But houses in Buffalo are cheap -->

Not when you consider the high taxes -->

But other states have usage fees -->


You see how this happens. Buffalo would be an affordable city but for the tremendously high taxes. Buffalo probably leaves the average working person with less money than most cities, the only good news is that you can change that by electing politicians who cut taxes, even if it means cutting a few services.

Then rent, don't buy.

Take standard deduction on income taxes, since lower housing costs mean you probably won't meet that amount anyway. (Standard deduction is $11400 for married filing jointly, which is about equivalent to taxes and interest on a 120k mortgage on a 150k house).

You will still save money since you will not have to pay upkeep on the house - rents are still ridiculously cheap compared to most places.

You don't have to worry about depreciation, or neighborhood demographics changing, as you can move when you want.

Sure, you won't "own" your home, but unless you pay cash the bank owns it anyway. On a 30 year 120k 5% mortgage your payment (P&I, Insurance, Taxes) is about 1100/month. Only 200 goes toward principal, so for a $900/mo rental you can match your monthly payment. And you can find all utilities paid places at that price.

Problem solved.

[Canerican]

Some people want to have a house to call their own. Now, I'll be the first to admit, a house is a horrible investment compared to the S&P, but there is alot to be said about a town where the only way to avoid some taxes is to rent (and rent isn't all that cheap compared to other cities).

Some people just like the idea of stability, not to mention that apartments larger than ~1000 sq ft are hard to come by in half decent areas, houses are not.

[donbuy]

Originally Posted by ckhthankgod

I believe that number is just for the city of Buffalo, while I believe the Vegas numbers are for the whole metro.

Your statment is correct - it's comparing peaches and horsefeathers.

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by Canerican

In SC, pretty much every city except Charleston is less expensive than Buffalo, and Charleston isn't much more expensive.

There is the stupid circle that we always debate.

Buffalo's taxes are high -->

But other states have usage fees -->

They are still lower as an aggregate than Buffalo -->

But houses in Buffalo are cheap -->

Not when you consider the high taxes -->

But other states have usage fees -->


You see how this happens. Buffalo would be an affordable city but for the tremendously high taxes. Buffalo probably leaves the average working person with less money than most cities, the only good news is that you can change that by electing politicians who cut taxes, even if it means cutting a few services.

Where in SC are you talking about? My mom is from Mullins, which is close to Myrtle Beach and I think it depends on where in Myrtle Beach you are talking about. Also, keep in mind that SC is one of the most violent states in the country, if not the most violent. Nearby Florence has one of the highest violent crime rates in the US. Don't get me wrong, I have plenty of love for SC, but they do not play down there. It is a "hot" state right now and the people are generally nice.

Here's some information: Myrtle Beach average and median listing prices - Trulia.com

Myrtle Beach, South Carolina Real Estate Market - AOL Real Estate

S.C. again most violent state The Post and Courier - Charleston SC newspaper

http://www.city-data.com/forum/south...ong-worst.html

I will say that people should keep crime stats into perspective, as there are various things that come into play.

[Canerican]

I know that SC has a big crime problem, for that reason I have lost most interest in the state, and I know that Florence has one of the highest rates in the country. The only good news (I guess for a White person like me) is that most of the crime stays within low class black neighborhoods, although it does spill over. I'm not saying that blacks deserve a high crime rate, I'm just saying that at least most White folks are pretty safe within their own neighborhoods.

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by Canerican

I know that SC has a big crime problem, for that reason I have lost most interest in the state, and I know that Florence has one of the highest rates in the country. The only good news (I guess for a White person like me) is that most of the crime stays within low class black neighborhoods, although it does spill over. I'm not saying that blacks deserve a high crime rate, I'm just saying that at least most White folks are pretty safe within their own neighborhoods.

Actually, most of the crime there is due to either domestic violence or drugs. Here's a good thread from that forum to check out: http://www.city-data.com/forum/south...ent-crime.html

and some other info. : State Rankings--Statistical Abstract of the United States--Violent Crime Rate

[Canerican]

You have to assume then that states which are weak on drug crimes would end up have lower statistics.

I was actually looking at the murder rate, though I'm sure that alot of murders would end up being classified as domestic violence.

[UpstaterInBklyn]

Originally Posted by Canerican

I really do hope the personal attacks stop though. I enjoy this website. Really well put together, but the personal attacks ruin it for everyone.

Some advice to make the personal attacks stop:

1. Choose your words more carefully, with less hyperbole and vitriol. Saying things like "This area is truly horrendous, and people ought to learn that before they move here." is neither useful nor factually true, and just gets everyone else angry. You have admitted some positive aspects of life in WNY yourself in several posts. Own your posts and stay true to your words.

2. Try to see the pros and cons of each issue, and how those relate to the individual needs of the OP. As others have tried to explain, there are good aspects and bad to life in WNY or anyplace for that matter. Everyone has different circumstances, preferences and priorities. A one-size-fits-all answer, especially when it is categorically negative, serves no purpose.

3. You do not need to use this forum is a personal soapbox for your own political views regarding gun ownership, race relations, etc. They are usually not relevant to the OP and there are other forums for arguing these subjects.

4. Don't take the bait either. The standard left/right liberal/conservative arguments are never won or lost. You have your beliefs and everyone you argue with has theirs and nobody on an internet forum is going to change anyone else's mind.

5. You do not need to take on a personal mission here to persuade people not to move to WNY. If you have something useful, factual and relevant, post it. Others will post information that perhaps disagrees with your point of view. The OP will be able to decide based on the credibility of the information and posters. If you have an opinion, post it, but make it clear that is your opinion.

[UpstaterInBklyn]

How about starting a new thread called the "Let's debate WNY" or something like that, then go at it there with all of the arguments?

Seriously, this happens in other forums. You'll usually find one or two threads where people just debate why they like or dislike the city. In the NYC forum where I hang out, so many threads were getting hijacked by crime statistics arguments that a new thread was started called the "Official NYC Crime Thread". Now a few combative posters go there to argue about crime and keep the other threads on-topic.

[Canerican]

That's a good idea. I never plan on actually hijacking a thread, it's just the way it goes... I make a point, and 3-4 people feel compelled to beat me to death with why I'm wrong. Then call me a moron at the end when I don't feel like arguing, or if I don't respond to each point of each post.