Middle class dying? Hyperinflation? (income, cost, work, payment)

[tallrick]

Inflation is the real enemy of progress. Deflation only hurts those in debt. Inflation is easy to create and I expect it to go higher than the current 10-12% rate. Without inflation, people would not need loans as much and bankers suffer. If there was no inflation it's just as well to store money till you need it. An expanding money supply cuts real wages for workers, who get closer and closer to indentured servants. I hate inflation more than anything.

[Humanoid]

...This whole blame the media thing seems to be a popular theme amongst people who don't know or understand economics. Particularly economic forces at play in the U.S.A.

Yes, people that don't understand economics like most people with ph.ds in economics. These memes is popular with the general public not within economics. You did post one study though, I looked at it briefly and it appears to deal with a common statistically fallacy (ignoring changes in the pool you are sampling) but I will read it in detail later. The other things you posted are pointless, news articles do not given enough details to see if the reported conclusion can actually be made from the data or not.

[HappyTexan]

Humanoid..how very true. When I read about the jobs data every month..how we "added 18,000 new jobs" I go to the gov't website and read the report for the informatin they DON'T tell you..like those 18,000 were in leisure and service while we lost twice as much in white collar professional jobs.

The media fluffs up the reports to always give us "good, feel happy" news. They want us to be consumers and buy stuff to keep the wheels turning.

[John23]

Originally Posted by Humanoid

From reading forums (like this one) it seems the "middle-class is dying" meme and the "inflation is out of control" meme is getting very popular.

Is this merely the effect of the media? Are the ideas being pushed by particular interest groups?

Anyhow, I get worried when these ideas gain so much popularity regardless of the actual evidence. Inflation mania lends to price fixing and the supposed issues with the middle class lead to socialism. Both, scare me a bit.

Some of it is media hype/bluster. The headlines have gotten more and more exaggerated, theres a blur between real news and celebrity/infotainment "news". Like the "foreclosure crisis", when in fact its only a very small percentage of the total amount of homes. And within that group, there's a high percentage that didn't know what they were doing, got over extended, gambled on re-financing or something. Is it a crisis if 98% of people are still in their homes?

The dumbing down of news is scary, especially online. Its gotten so tabloidish and hyped up. All financial news seems to be one sided. Its scary how in lock step all of the reports are.

Housing going down is always bad. It doesn't seem to matter what channel or source you get it from.

Lowering interest rates is always good. It doesn't matter if you're a saver or you have your money in a CD or money market fund.

Its not that way in other areas....in sports or movies or travel, you get different perspectives. But the lock step financial reporting is pretty crazy, I hope people see past it.

But inflation is definitely real and very underreported, swept under the rug. Thats a real topic that should get alot of debate.

Some debates and topics are good, you should get different viewpoints on them. But life is still going on. People in the real world dont seem to be as panicy and hyped up as the discussions online, at least generally. There seems to be a big chasm between the two...but maybe it depends on where you live or whats going on around you.

[Humanoid]

But inflation is definitely real and very underreported, swept under the rug. Thats a real topic that should get alot of debate.

Yes, I hear this a lot. But where is the data that shows its underreported? Where is an index that shows that inflation is higher than what the government reports? In what way is the government's report of inflation inaccurate? How can one improve the way the government determines inflation?

The problem is there is no way to determine the rate of inflation with complete accuracy. But everyone seems to be suggesting that the government numbers are wrong....but what they aren't doing is saying exactly how they are wrong and how one could better determine the rate of inflation. Anyhow, I just find it amazing that every day Joes seem to think they know whats going on with inflation despite the fact that inflation reporting is actually a rather open ended complex issue in economics.

[harry chickpea]

Originally Posted by Humanoid

Yes, I hear this a lot. But where is the data that shows its underreported? Where is an index that shows that inflation is higher than what the government reports? In what way is the government's report of inflation inaccurate? How can one improve the way the government determines inflation?

The problem is there is no way to determine the rate of inflation with complete accuracy. But everyone seems to be suggesting that the government numbers are wrong....but what they aren't doing is saying exactly how they are wrong and how one could better determine the rate of inflation. Anyhow, I just find it amazing that every day Joes seem to think they know whats going on with inflation despite the fact that inflation reporting is actually a rather open ended complex issue in economics.

Here is a recent primer for you:

The Consumer Price Index may underestimate inflation. - Apr. 3, 2008

"Anyhow, I just find it amazing that every day Joes seem to think they know whats going on with inflation despite the fact that inflation reporting is actually a rather open ended complex issue in economics."

Oh come on. I suppose you also were the type of three year old kid that went to the doctor, had him administer a shot to you, and then asked "In your professional opinion, did that hurt?"

I'll put it bluntly. The government economists don't know jack about inflation, or are lying. Not just coloring their figures, but lying. They have been pressured repeatedly by strong forces to revise inflation downward.

Follow the money. Do you think that, just for one example, the linking of the CPI and inflation to payout rates for social security payments isn't an incentive to keep those figures low? I'd trust the opinion of a zit-faced teen at a burger joint before I'd trust the "professional" thinking of these same economists who brought us "trickle down" "new deal" "great society" and other economic farces.

Of what earthly purpose is a "rate of inflation" to a senior on a fixed income, whose primary variable cost of living is food, when that rate doesn't include food as an indicator? I'll tell you. It makes as much sense as your doctor saying to you "OK, I'm going to take your temperature. Nurse, bend over and lift your skirt so I can insert this thermometer." It may be entertaining as a diversion, but it has no relationship to anything meaningful.

I'm tired of government lying, half-truths, obfuscation, back room deals rescuing thieves and idiots, and constant devious methods of increasing taxes, and I'm getting increasingly testy with people that try to defend those actions.

[sean98125]

Originally Posted by Wild Style

when bread goes up from 1.99 to 2.99 in a year, if thats not inflation i dont know what is.

But it's tied in to overconsumption of other resources. Large houses and large cars have increased the demand for oil and have increased the demand for crop-based fuels. That increases the costs of oil and crops to suppliers, which increases the cost of bread at your local market. Those large houses and large cars are paid for with large loans. Those that demand McMansions and inefficient micro-genital compensation wagons are driving up the costs for those of us who are more responsible with their money.

[sean98125]

Originally Posted by harry chickpea

It makes as much sense as your doctor saying to you "OK, I'm going to take your temperature. Nurse, bend over and lift your skirt so I can insert this thermometer." .

That could certainly cause inflation.

[Wild Style]

This is not correct. Oil is being driven up by three factors. Speculation, Peak Oil and Supply and Demand (which again ties into peak oil)

Originally Posted by sean98125

But it's tied in to overconsumption of other resources. Large houses and large cars have increased the demand for oil and have increased the demand for crop-based fuels. That increases the costs of oil and crops to suppliers, which increases the cost of bread at your local market. Those large houses and large cars are paid for with large loans. Those that demand McMansions and inefficient micro-genital compensation wagons are driving up the costs for those of us who are more responsible with their money.

[sean98125]

Originally Posted by Wild Style

This is not correct. Oil is being driven up by three factors. Speculation, Peak Oil and Supply and Demand (which again ties into peak oil)

demand = consumption