can you say peak oil?

[Wild Style]

Originally Posted by compelled to reply

That is more classical liberalism which is closer to a Libertarian philosophy, which is more like where I am at. I would define your train of thought as being closer to a US defined democratic party type of "liberal".

Although I am curious, where did you get your degree from? I know you did study economics but it can be interpreted so many ways. I have done research about peak oil for a couple of years now and although I am typically more of a Libertarian thinker, I am starting to wonder if that is really an economically sustainable stance when our oil usage keeps on rising and production is starting to decline. Our whole damn economy is based on cheap oil and although I am more of an advocate of personal responsibility, I'm starting to think we need to save ourselves from our own selves. Your example in Nashville shows irresponsible use of our freedoms and without a cheap source of fuel to keep this crap going, I guess we are bound to collapse unless we unite...

It does kind of have to do with politics when you look at it that way, because my current political stance is mostly infeasible in a world where oil that is going to need to make some serious changes if we want to have any sort of quality of life. We can't rely on ourselves to change...

That was completely off the topic of this forum so I am just going to say that in addition, I think "business" as we know it (driving to work, sitting in traffic for an hour dodging morons on the road, parking out car in some paved lot with other cars) obviously is going to change. Telecommuting is THE WAY TO GO.

I won't say what school I went to (for anonymity purposes) but it was a accredited school. Some of my old professors worked for the IMF, one consulted with the local govt on economic development and the list goes on. Either way, I don't believe in political parties. I think they are two sides of the same coin, they just go about the main agenda differently. I don't believe in bailouts for govt or the masses. I don't believe in allowing certain lifestyles in societies, the list goes on and on for me not being on board with any of these parties.

Back on topic,

I wonder how long before people stop whining about high gas prices and start taking steps to remedy the situation. I also wonder when they will start demanding reasonable solution be made by the govt (that does not include lowering gas prices, that is silly, not reasonable)

[compelled to reply]

Originally Posted by Wild Style

I wonder how long before people stop whining about high gas prices and start taking steps to remedy the situation. I also wonder when they will start demanding reasonable solution be made by the govt (that does not include lowering gas prices, that is silly, not reasonable)

Telecommute, telecommute, telecommute. People need to push their employers to offer this as an option for them. We shouldn't protest by not buying gas, we should protest by not driving to work.

[tallrick]

I believe in telecommuting and with a better nationwide high-speed data network it can replace the stupid commute to cities. As for central planning, it is always a failure. Central government and planning has held back the human race for thousands of years. Along came the US Constitution, and more progress was made in 100 years than in 10,000. I think that the Libertarians have the best ideas, just let the market decide. People should be able to live wherever they want, but without Government support. Using an imported fuel source is just downright stupid. Yet if Government was not allowing the currency to be debased in debt, the market would set the oil prices. Face it, commuting is stupid, repeal zoning and have your business near home. Demand freedom from oppression and you will have the freedom to live where you want, and compete in the world market. Government control has put us where we are, stop the central planning and let people solve their own problems.

[compelled to reply]

Very good points tallrick. Every day I become more and more intrigued by a more centralized government but at the same time, you are right, it has historically failed us (with exceptions). Right now we sort of have a cross between a (not fully) Libertarian-style setup and a bunch of useless bureaucracies. The problem is that I don't know if we CAN make responsible decisions on our own. Then again, it doesn't really help out to have an irresponsible centralized government. I really don't know, peak oil is kind of a situation where unless you have an educated public (which by readings some of the threads about gas prices, we don't), we could seriously have our society "torn apart" because people are too damn stoooooopid. We have freedom but we still expect somebody to feed us or serve us, and that makes for a braindead public. This is a situation like the world has never faced.

[tallrick]

Yes, once we hit peak I see a breakdown of the current system. What I hope is that it causes people to demand more freedom, and not fall into a new "dark age" of servitude. Even when oil peaks in the future, we have many options to keep our system running. Nuclear power and any non-petroleum source will continue. i look forward to the end of planned developments, suburban shopping malls, and to seeing more people on bicycle, train and on foot. We will be healthier and happier in the long run as long as we keep the lines of communication open, and get more involved in home gardening and exchanging talents.

[compelled to reply]

Originally Posted by tallrick

i look forward to the end of planned developments,

What are we going to do with Weston? lol. Don't you own a bulldozer?

In all serious though, there are HUGE swaths of this type of development all over America. What's going to happen? Although telecommuting is much more efficient than driving a car down a crowded highway, where are we going to house the server infrastructure? Maybe we could have solar-powered web server buildings as "offices" in these past suburbs?

[Wild Style]

Originally Posted by tallrick

I believe in telecommuting and with a better nationwide high-speed data network it can replace the stupid commute to cities. As for central planning, it is always a failure. Central government and planning has held back the human race for thousands of years. Along came the US Constitution, and more progress was made in 100 years than in 10,000. I think that the Libertarians have the best ideas, just let the market decide. People should be able to live wherever they want, but without Government support. Using an imported fuel source is just downright stupid. Yet if Government was not allowing the currency to be debased in debt, the market would set the oil prices. Face it, commuting is stupid, repeal zoning and have your business near home. Demand freedom from oppression and you will have the freedom to live where you want, and compete in the world market. Government control has put us where we are, stop the central planning and let people solve their own problems.

Leaving people to their own devices could mean thousands if not millions of people headed on the road to disaster. I wouldn't care so much if that would not negatively impact the society at large. People should not, I repeat should not be allowed to do their own thing given the fact the over all society would have to pay for their stupidity.

Originally Posted by tallrick

I believe in telecommuting and with a better nationwide high-speed data network it can replace the stupid commute to cities. As for central planning, it is always a failure. Central government and planning has held back the human race for thousands of years. Along came the US Constitution, and more progress was made in 100 years than in 10,000. I think that the Libertarians have the best ideas, just let the market decide. People should be able to live wherever they want, but without Government support. Using an imported fuel source is just downright stupid. Yet if Government was not allowing the currency to be debased in debt, the market would set the oil prices. Face it, commuting is stupid, repeal zoning and have your business near home. Demand freedom from oppression and you will have the freedom to live where you want, and compete in the world market. Government control has put us where we are, stop the central planning and let people solve their own problems.

Leaving people to their own devices could mean thousands if not millions of people headed on the road to disaster. I wouldn't care so much if that would not negatively impact the society at large. People should not, I repeat should not be allowed to do their own thing given the fact the over all society would have to pay for their stupidity.

Originally Posted by compelled to reply

What are we going to do with Weston? lol. Don't you own a bulldozer?

In all serious though, there are HUGE swaths of this type of development all over America. What's going to happen? Although telecommuting is much more efficient than driving a car down a crowded highway, where are we going to house the server infrastructure? Maybe we could have solar-powered web server buildings as "offices" in these past suburbs?

I used to work at Lucent (before the telecom bust) and I assure you, the infrastructure is there. It is just a matter of increasing offered bandwidth. Hong Kong has Giga broadband. As for servers, those are housed at company offices as they should be. Comcast and Verizon are now offering 105 mb/s speeds now. The price just needs to come down and once it does telecommuting will become even more viable.

[Philip T]

Sorry, but I think both sides (free market v. govt planned) BOTH miss the problem.

Problem is . . . we have stupid people in charge. And it does not matter D v. R, either. While we are either snicker when GW goes on like a babbling idiot, or the devoted R's think it means he is real -- it still comes down to WYSIWYG. A babbling idiot. Same with the D's -- Clinton was such a dope he thought he could get away with lying, too. Just saying that so everyone can follow the that stupid has no sides, but there is a lot of it at the top.

Same reason the worshiped "free market" does not work. The MBAs running the business side of things are idiots. Wild Style, you are in the education business, so you track what the GRE is. It is like the SAT for college entrance, but the next level up -- for Grad School. That matters because the folks with Graduate degrees in America are making most of the decisions the rest of you have to live with. By the GRE scores the dumbest college grads going on to graduate school are . . . business. Our future MBA (Masters of Business Administration). By some of the scores, mouth breathing dummies. If someone does not like me saying so, read the scores -- they do not lie.

Speaking to the whole tele-commute concept. Business folks and retard MBAs are why you have triple overlaid dark cable (areas so saturated with fiber optic cable, it is not even turned on) and other areas with barely dial-up. The MBA directing those decisions are idiots. That is the fabled "free market" in action. And even where there is good internet service, there are still idiot MBAs dictating that workers must come in. Even Verizon (a telecom company, no less) does that to many of their workers. All because of the MBA idiots running the show.

I have watched this over and over. The idiot business people running the airlines into the ground. The idiot business managers blowing up space shuttles. And the dumb-ass masses of America who listen to Rush, etc., and figure since he says business people are somehow smart they should be followed. Blind leading the blind. Idiots following idiots.

Back towards the topic. Concerned about motor fuel? Of course there is a simple, long-term tech solution. Electric vehicles that draw their power directly from a grid enabled roadway. Needs little to no battery, zero pollution and costs about half of a present day gas engine. Could be building them en masse in under a year. The technology has been around for 80 years or more, and any kid who has played with a slot car or bumper car already knows this.

[tallrick]

Originally Posted by compelled to reply

What are we going to do with Weston? lol. Don't you own a bulldozer?

In all serious though, there are HUGE swaths of this type of development all over America. What's going to happen? Although telecommuting is much more efficient than driving a car down a crowded highway, where are we going to house the server infrastructure? Maybe we could have solar-powered web server buildings as "offices" in these past suburbs?

They can drive golf carts around the suburbs and every home telecommuter should have a server on site. As mentioned above, there is a lot of "dark fiber" going unused. I was involved in the installation of fiber along US-27 and across Florida to highway 80 in the late 90's and there's a bunch of it that went in a few years back along I-75. Weston is very close to that. As for the free market we do not have that now. If an average person wants to get in the business, established interests often prevent the entry through limiting capital or Government regulation. The regulations allow monopolies and big business to thrive. Government is rigged to prevent average citizens from being elected to office. Online elections could prevent that. Eliminating vast amounts of office and retail space frees up electrical power that can be used at home. Businesses use energy at night for lighting and air conditioning far more than homes. As for the electronic infrasrtucture, it still uses less energy than commuting and in this area it is nuclear power, not oil that gives most of the electicity.

As for the suburbs I have believed that with a few adjustments they can outperform the city. Replace lawns with trees and gardens, build new homes with flat concrete roofs that double as gardens, add rail lines to supply raw materials to warehouses and factories, and allow people to work from home. Recycling garbage and yard waste as I do will help cut out waste, something cities cannot do. There was a study once, that if you eliminate commuting, suburban life is more efficient than city life, and better for you. Robotics can eliminate low paying labor, if the person so chooses.

Yes I own a small bulldozer and a Bobcat, funny because a friend always teased me about that. He always wondered how the person who owns a bulldozer has the most trees on his properties.

[Wild Style]

man tallrick, you are like a one man city! That is good though, self sufficient is always the best way.