How long can the shell game continue?

[harry chickpea]

What just occurred with the bailouts is that the government put the comfort of the current crop of the wealthy ahead of the core values of the country.

Libertarians have been crying for less government and greater personal responsibility, and politicians have claimed to share those values. The truth is now out. What this bailout shows is that government has only been paying lip service to those concepts as well as what our forefathers died for.

We now have a government endorsing corporate socialism, where the elite are protected from womb to grave, while relegating the common citizen to serfdom, paying off the bailouts. We should round up all the people responsible for the mess, chain 'em together, toss 'em in Galveston, put up a fence around the place, and let FEMA take care of them for ten years. I'd even recommend putting Brownie back in charge of that task.

[cohdane]

Regardless of Obama vs. McCain, I for one am PISSED and would like to see taxes on the ultra-rich RAISED TO THE HIGH HEAVENS.

They're the ones that made all the money off this. They're not going to be hurting. They need to pay the rest of us back.

I'm not buying some Wall Street a**hole's or Mortgage Broker's 5th house.

Raise those taxes on the rich. Raise 'em high.

[thebigr]

Originally Posted by harry chickpea

What just occurred with the bailouts is that the government put the comfort of the current crop of the wealthy ahead of the core values of the country.

Libertarians have been crying for less government and greater personal responsibility, and politicians have claimed to share those values. The truth is now out. What this bailout shows is that government has only been paying lip service to those concepts as well as what our forefathers died for.

We now have a government endorsing corporate socialism, where the elite are protected from womb to grave, while relegating the common citizen to serfdom, paying off the bailouts. We should round up all the people responsible for the mess, chain 'em together, toss 'em in Galveston, put up a fence around the place, and let FEMA take care of them for ten years. I'd even recommend putting Brownie back in charge of that task.

One thing you must remember though. If the common citizen would of not taken these exotic loans on overvalued homes and got greedy thinking they could buy and sell homes this mess would probably not be as it is. Borrowing money on a homes value that was going up 20% and more every year is not a wise financial move. But I do agree, we need to take some personal responsibility. I believe the common citizen brought this on upon himself. Not all, but many. Unfortunatly the ones that were responsible will pay for the irresponsible ones.

[harry chickpea]

Originally Posted by thebigr

One thing you must remember though. If the common citizen would of not taken these exotic loans on overvalued homes and got greedy thinking they could buy and sell homes this mess would probably not be as it is. Borrowing money on a homes value that was going up 20% and more every year is not a wise financial move. But I do agree, we need to take some personal responsibility. I believe the common citizen brought this on upon himself. Not all, but many. Unfortunatly the ones that were responsible will pay for the irresponsible ones.

Ayn Rand made a name for herself with the book "Atlas Shrugged." The premise of that book was "What would happen if all the smart and powerful creators went on strike?" Perhaps it is nearing the time for those of us who have been responsible with our finances go on strike and simply work the absolute minimum amount needed to survive.

The frenzy of this FIRE economy is a huge parasite that must be killed. The "medicine" that the government wants to use is as bad as the disease. It may be time to starve the sucker. "Gee, Senator, I only make minimum wage now (when I work). You'll have to raise taxes on someone else. BTW, can I have some aid or an earmark here?"

[CosmicWizard]

janb wrote:

We are shooting ourselves in the foot (again). This injury may be terminal.

Foot injuries are rarely terminal.

[evilnewbie]

Originally Posted by harry chickpea

What just occurred with the bailouts is that the government put the comfort of the current crop of the wealthy ahead of the core values of the country.

Libertarians have been crying for less government and greater personal responsibility, and politicians have claimed to share those values. The truth is now out. What this bailout shows is that government has only been paying lip service to those concepts as well as what our forefathers died for.

We now have a government endorsing corporate socialism, where the elite are protected from womb to grave, while relegating the common citizen to serfdom, paying off the bailouts. We should round up all the people responsible for the mess, chain 'em together, toss 'em in Galveston, put up a fence around the place, and let FEMA take care of them for ten years. I'd even recommend putting Brownie back in charge of that task.

As much as I hate to say it... its true... we are bailing out the wealthy... no wonder a lot of politicians (Republicans AND Democrats) are "For" this initiative as well as celebrities, brokers, and corporate America.... we are bailing out the wealthy with this initiative.. and I REALLY hate saying that as I see bailouts of the middle class America very significant but with this latest bailout... the wealthy have been bailed out more than middle class America... there is a problem with that.. the wealthy are wealthy even after this, there is absolutely NO reason to bail them out...

[goodbyehollywood]

OK, I'll play devil's advocate-- never a popular position, but there are always two sides to every story.

The wealthy pay the majority of taxes in this country. They may or may not pay less on a percentage basis, but they pay far more on the aggregate. Without them, the middle class would have far less funds for schools, roads, infrastructure and the other necessities and niceties of life in America. If we tax them to high heavens, what will they do? They'll leave. They'll move, with their billions, to a more favorable tax haven. They have the wherewithal, they're mobile and living in the Caribbean or Europe or Belize isn't all that bad. Beachfront property costs far less than it does here and dollars certainly go further. If you're ever bored sometime, take a look at how much of our tax revenue comes from the top 5% or 10% of taxpayers (or whatever % you define as wealthy). Then look at what the remainder pays. Then imagine that wealthy contribution --poof!-- gone and only the middle and lower class contributions left to keep America afloat.

And the homeowners that are getting all those bailouts? That's the middle class, blue collar families, young first-time buyers and the desperately upwardly mobile. They're the ones who got in over their heads and now have hands outstretched. I'm not saying the wealthy don't share the blame, but they certainly aren't defaulting on toxic home loans. They aren't walking away in droves from subprime or Alt-A mortgages that they never should have gotten.

For every lender, there is a borrower; for every seller, a buyer. There's lots of blame to go around, and every class has contributed in some way to this debacle. And we sure are going to need those wealthy tax dollars to pay off our trillions in debt. (Think how long it would take the middle class to pay that off alone.) Some might call it a quid pro quo.

[tallrick]

Originally Posted by harry chickpea

Ayn Rand made a name for herself with the book "Atlas Shrugged." The premise of that book was "What would happen if all the smart and powerful creators went on strike?" Perhaps it is nearing the time for those of us who have been responsible with our finances go on strike and simply work the absolute minimum amount needed to survive.

The frenzy of this FIRE economy is a huge parasite that must be killed. The "medicine" that the government wants to use is as bad as the disease. It may be time to starve the sucker. "Gee, Senator, I only make minimum wage now (when I work). You'll have to raise taxes on someone else. BTW, can I have some aid or an earmark here?"

That's pretty much what I am doing. I gave up on over the board business and will survive under the table till this whole mess plays out. It would be really nice if I could get my "official" income to below the standard deduction. Hopefully the property crash cuts the unfair property taxes which are my main expense.