This is extortion, pure and simple (loans, free market, mortgage, companies)

[harry chickpea]

Let's try to examine the basics in this "bail-out" mess.

First, the Federal government allowed the existence of an unregulated financial document called a derivative.

Second, those documents inflated the value of otherwise worthless mortgages and securities.

Third, there was a feeding frenzy for the newfound source of money, creating demand in the mortgage markets and an inflation in housing prices.

Fourth, local governments were ecstatic because of all the new growth and increased property tax revenues on inflated home values.

Fifth, even after the inflationary spiral and Ponzi aspects were obvious, the Fed and SEC did nothing to bring sanity to the markets.

Those are the basics. Now we discover that these same documents, in conjunction with naked short selling and a few tricks are being used to literally destroy huge institutions. People and companies are making Billions of dollars by actively targeting and destroying key companies in our economy.

Let me repeat that for those who missed it - the biggest game on Wall Street is now "Who can make the most money the quickest, by tearing down our economic infrastructure?"

I'll put it in plain English. This is war, a war against America by certain parts of Wall Street, and the government is colluding with those parties by infusing more money and allowing the situation to continue. The government is running around with bundles of cash, REWARDING the very people who have acted irresponsibly and the very people who are bent on destroying our businesses.

So what can be done to correct the situation? The answer is so simple, that it boggles the mind. Outlaw all new derivatives and related documents NOW, and expire existing ones over a five year period. The root cause of the problem, point #1 above, is being totally ignored in the flush of cash being tossed to bankers in baskets. By taking the economy off the crack called derivatives, it will have to revert to healthier ways of making money.

As for senators and bankers and Cramer screaming extortion threats that ATMs will no longer work, and that loans for new cars and college and homes will dry up... ...SO WHAT? The cure is worse than the problem. With a bailout, we as taxpayers are being forced to pay (via taxes and dilution of the money supply) money to big bankers, so that they can then charge us interest and loan OUR OWN MONEY back to us. This is crazy. Why don't we just give all our money to Guido, the thug on the corner, and then get loans from him and pay him interest?

I learned long ago in business that when a customer wants a lot of expensive equipment on an absolutely urgent basis, that that customer has no intention of ever paying for the equipment, and that the urgency is a fiction to prevent clear thinking. Paulson and Beenie Baby are using that same technique to fleece the country and support a system that does not and cannot work.

Cramer predicts a drop in the DOW to 8300 as a horror. Yeah? So the fake money goes bye-bye and the real value of the market gets exposed? Isn't that a GOOD thing? Will that mean Joe Businessman will only qualify for a million dollar house instead of a two million dollar house? *Sniff* Oh, the HORROR!

From the top on down, everyone agrees that the bailout doesn't fix the problem, and the system is broken. Everything we are hearing and reading points to an extortion of the taxpayer, to finance another round of passing the crack pipe in Washington and on Wall Street. We are seeing the biggest outright theft of taxpayer money ever foisted on a population, a robbery of the middle class designed to cushion the loss of unreal money that the elite thought they were holding.

Cramer whines that Shelby is stopping a rescue that will save your next car loan application. BULL. Shelby is to some extent trying to hold people responsible for their own actions. Remember that idea of personal responsibility?

[Movie Lover]

After all this, is the mob really that bad?

[58robbo]

Originally Posted by harry chickpea

Let's try to examine the basics in this "bail-out" mess.

First, the Federal government allowed the existence of an unregulated financial document called a derivative.

Second, those documents inflated the value of otherwise worthless mortgages and securities.

Third, there was a feeding frenzy for the newfound source of money, creating demand in the mortgage markets and an inflation in housing prices.

Fourth, local governments were ecstatic because of all the new growth and increased property tax revenues on inflated home values.

Fifth, even after the inflationary spiral and Ponzi aspects were obvious, the Fed and SEC did nothing to bring sanity to the markets.

Those are the basics. Now we discover that these same documents, in conjunction with naked short selling and a few tricks are being used to literally destroy huge institutions. People and companies are making Billions of dollars by actively targeting and destroying key companies in our economy.

Let me repeat that for those who missed it - the biggest game on Wall Street is now "Who can make the most money the quickest, by tearing down our economic infrastructure?"

I'll put it in plain English. This is war, a war against America by certain parts of Wall Street, and the government is colluding with those parties by infusing more money and allowing the situation to continue. The government is running around with bundles of cash, REWARDING the very people who have acted irresponsibly and the very people who are bent on destroying our businesses.

So what can be done to correct the situation? The answer is so simple, that it boggles the mind. Outlaw all new derivatives and related documents NOW, and expire existing ones over a five year period. The root cause of the problem, point #1 above, is being totally ignored in the flush of cash being tossed to bankers in baskets. By taking the economy off the crack called derivatives, it will have to revert to healthier ways of making money.

As for senators and bankers and Cramer screaming extortion threats that ATMs will no longer work, and that loans for new cars and college and homes will dry up... ...SO WHAT? The cure is worse than the problem. With a bailout, we as taxpayers are being forced to pay (via taxes and dilution of the money supply) money to big bankers, so that they can then charge us interest and loan OUR OWN MONEY back to us. This is crazy. Why don't we just give all our money to Guido, the thug on the corner, and then get loans from him and pay him interest?

I learned long ago in business that when a customer wants a lot of expensive equipment on an absolutely urgent basis, that that customer has no intention of ever paying for the equipment, and that the urgency is a fiction to prevent clear thinking. Paulson and Beenie Baby are using that same technique to fleece the country and support a system that does not and cannot work.

Cramer predicts a drop in the DOW to 8300 as a horror. Yeah? So the fake money goes bye-bye and the real value of the market gets exposed? Isn't that a GOOD thing? Will that mean Joe Businessman will only qualify for a million dollar house instead of a two million dollar house? *Sniff* Oh, the HORROR!

From the top on down, everyone agrees that the bailout doesn't fix the problem, and the system is broken. Everything we are hearing and reading points to an extortion of the taxpayer, to finance another round of passing the crack pipe in Washington and on Wall Street. We are seeing the biggest outright theft of taxpayer money ever foisted on a population, a robbery of the middle class designed to cushion the loss of unreal money that the elite thought they were holding.

Cramer whines that Shelby is stopping a rescue that will save your next car loan application. BULL. Shelby is to some extent trying to hold people responsible for their own actions. Remember that idea of personal responsibility?

sorry harry but i disagree! businessmen on wall street will do what they can get away with. kudos to them. the WHOLE problem stems from the implicit guarantees offered by government to back risky mortgages and loans. if i loaned you a million bucks at cheap rates, told you to go to vegas and bet on red then guaranteed that i'd cover your losses, you'd be silly not to do it, no? well that's exactly what the govt did.
the "free market" only works when there's a balance between risk and reward!

[evilnewbie]

The government is THE SOURCE of the problem... and now that the problem is rearing its ugly head, the government wants you to fix the problem that THEY created... and what do you get in return? A Bigger Government that will continue to make bigger mistakes by creating "social experiments"... the biggest social experimenters are Democrats but now the "new" Republicans are getting a hand in it... oh well, when Americans demand handouts, what did you think was going to happen to the parties... they all move further left... the further left the more handouts they give...

[58robbo]

Originally Posted by harry chickpea

With a bailout, we as taxpayers are being forced to pay (via taxes and dilution of the money supply) money to big bankers, so that they can then charge us interest and loan OUR OWN MONEY back to us.

this is probably the most accurate description of paulson's proposal. it's absolute madness.
sad reality is that it will pass.

[Woof Woof Woof!]

I'm really glad to see more people getting angry at least.

[58robbo]

Originally Posted by Woof Woof Woof!

I'm really glad to see more people getting angry at least.

what difference does it make? the monster will still be passed whether we like it or not

[bls5555]

Originally Posted by 58robbo

what difference does it make? the monster will still be passed whether we like it or not

and then the same monsters will be elected back in to office.

[mimimomx3]

Originally Posted by Movie Lover

After all this, is the mob really that bad?

At least they give you protection....

[jimj]

Originally Posted by 58robbo

what difference does it make? the monster will still be passed whether we like it or not

Exactly...