Your opinion; should we let GM die? Yes or no. (insurance, buying)

[flyingwriter]

No more bailouts. If GM can't compete, then they should go under. I don't want any more tax dollars going to save insolvent businesses.

[texdav]

[quote=CarolinaWoman;6123532]If GM fails, I think we're talking economic disaster here and we'll be in for a depression. It would mean every employee of GM, dealers, mechanics, salesmen, advertising people, suppliers, white collar, blue collar will be unemployed. In addition businesses around those plants will close, we are talking millions of people unemployed in a day. This would touch every sector of the economy and would not only devastate the states where Detroit has its manufacturing and parts facilities, but it would affect every state in the USA too.

We've allowed other nations to come into this country virtually unimpeded ... Mercedes in Alabama, BMW in South Carolina, Toyota factory under construction in Mississippi and the list goes on ... we have showered them with enormous, 25 year long-term tax breaks, free land and other incentives cause we are nice people. Yes, jobs were created, but now we're waking up to the fact that American-owned manufacturing facilities are fewer in number because our manufacturing base has been slowly destroyed from within.

For years Japan's gov't did everything they could to keep American made vehicles from being sold in their country. The profits and overhead allocation for each GM & Ford product goes back into production, design, material, reinvestment here in the USA. Toyota and Nissans profits and overhead allocations go to Japan.

Now I'm not saying they don't build a nice vehicle, and it's everyones God given right to choose to purchase with their hard earned USA Greenbacks what they want....but the price of those decisions affect the American economy. These countries are in it for the money only ... OUR money. Just maybe the Japanese won the war over time.

Our gov't approved, out of our pocketbooks I might add, bailout money for the financial institutions and we have loaned or handed out to AIG over one fifth of the entire bailout fund. Of course 'they' tell us it's just a loan and we gonna get some money back .... maybe ... some day.

I agree some sort of restructuring needs to be done with the Motown auto industry and the unions ... a body can sweep floors and pull in mega bucks ... there would have to be some "strings" attached to a bailout or loan. I just can't conceive of Uncle Sam letting the auto manufacturing industry go down the tubes. We didn't have a choice in the financial institution and AIG bailouts and we probably won't have a choice in what the gov't will do for the domestic automobile industry.

I did purchase GM & Ford stock this week! [/quote

GM and the american makers have had since the 70's to restructure their businesses when they ran in0ot tewh same problem. But they decided as soon as the embargo was over to become SUV salers and put all their eggs in that basket. We heard the same argumants with teh airlines that the suppliers and the airline makers would go with them. Bankrupsy does not mean a end to GM;just as it didn't witht eh airlines.In fact GM has just anniounced a new plant in russia and their best profits are from euroep;so its not lke they are not also selling in foreign countries.I have no faith that they will change anyhting and banksupsy will aloow them to restructure which they can't now even if we give them 50 billion.In the end they have no sales at a profit;have obligations that make it every unl;ike anyhting is going to change there and its throwing monay after bad;being that it wouldn't fix anyhting and they wouodn't be paying back when they do go bankrupt.

[CarolinaWoman]

Originally Posted by texdav

GM and the american makers have had since the 70's to restructure their businesses when they ran in0ot tewh same problem. But they decided as soon as the embargo was over to become SUV salers and put all their eggs in that basket.

Yes they became SUV manufacturers because WE the people demanded BIGGER ... gimme one of those big Suburbans ... you got anything bigger???

Originally Posted by texdav

In fact GM has just anniounced a new plant in russia and their best profits are from euroep;so its not lke they are not also selling in foreign countries.;

And what does a new plant in Russia and other parts of Europe, China and Japan do for the American worker? Take a trip to Charleston SC and check out the shipping port sometime ... it's an amazing sight to see all the BMWs thousand of them Made in the USA being shipped to Europe to be sold ... one day BMW, Toyota and the others will be screaming their heads off about having to pay the American workers healthcare benefits, 401ks and other perks ... because the profit on these Made in The USA vehicles never darken our coffers.

Originally Posted by texdav

I have no faith that they will change anyhting.

I agree with you there. If their modus operandi doesn't change dumping money there will not help.

[teatime]

Or maybe they could be bought out by a foreign firm that would actually make the operations profitable. I honestly can't think of a better outcome for GM as history has shown they'll never learn.

Originally Posted by 70Ford

Running on empty, GM's fate is debated - Washington Post

Under the protection of bankruptcy, GM could trim health and pension benefits, whose costs have been dragging down Motor City's cost competitiveness versus foreign automakers. The process would allow GM to shrink its network of dealerships, overriding state laws that would otherwise make such a reduction an expensive headache.

GM could then take steps to retool plants and slash unprofitable brands.
If all these terms could be arranged ahead of time, in a prepackaged bankruptcy, GM could soldier on without skipping a beat, analysts said.
*******************************

Allan Sloan - Why GM Stalled - washingtonpost.com

The Washington Post article sums it up pretty well.

[Stephan_K]

Originally Posted by CarolinaWoman

Yes they became SUV manufacturers because WE the people demanded BIGGER ... gimme one of those big Suburbans ... you got anything bigger???

It's funny, ever since gas went through the roof all the SUV owners and people in general act like GM & F MADE everyone buy SUV's. Like they didn't have a choice of one of the other 10,000 model vehicles they make...

And all you hear is "they don't make cars people want". I wanna slit my wrists when I hear that... ridiculous I tell ya. They make too many cars with too many options period ! That is US autos biggest problem. Too many non profitable arms with all those models.

[evilnewbie]

When I buy something, I always think, we this thing save me money or is it worth dollar for dollar for what it costs.. when I got a new car, I looked for a car with great MPG instead of what "look" good which 99.9% of the people looked at.. I always thought a dollar saved is a dollar in my wallet to get something else... when gas prices rose, everyone complained and I always thought it was funny they were complaining... I paid about double what I usually paid for but I can only imagine what other people were paying on their SUVs... funny thing, they still drive it around which is fine by me, but don't start complaining about decisions you make... you want freedom to make your decisions then accept responsibility for your decisions...

[teatime]

Weeeeeeelllll, that's not exactly true. The last time I went car shopping in '04, there really weren't that many GM cars that struck my fancy. I wanted something small that got good gas mileage and had some room for carrying odd or big items. Something that I could afford and was well-made, too.

There were VERY few cars that fit the bill -- just the Saab 9-2X and the Pontiac Vibe. The Vibe was my backup in case they couldn't find me an appropriate Saab. In typical GM fashion, they didn't make many of them, didn't market them much, and the ones they sent to Texas dealerships all had the "cold weather package." The local dealership called all over the place trying to find one and the other dealerships reported having the same problem. The sales manager checked the computer and found one enroute from Japan. He snagged it for me and I waited the three weeks for it to arrive.

It's clear that what I wanted was a sport wagon or hatchback. If I wasn't committed to buying a GM vehicle and if I wasn't sold on Saab, I could have bought a Mazda or Subaru sport wagon immediately and saved $4K or $5K. I LOVE my 9-2X -- it's actually a marriage between Saab and Subaru. It has the Subaru boxer engine and the stylish Saab body with all of the safety features and AWD. It's really holding its value, too!

But GM didn't market the car well or commit to it -- instead, they dropped it after two years of production and introduced a big ole Saab 9-7X SUV. Does this make one lick of sense? Plus, the Vibe is a good seller for them so you'd think they would get a clue and introduce more five-doors or sporty wagons as the other car makers offer. They didn't.

Originally Posted by Stephan_K

It's funny, ever since gas went through the roof all the SUV owners and people in general act like GM & F MADE everyone buy SUV's. Like they didn't have a choice of one of the other 10,000 model vehicles they make...

And all you hear is "they don't make cars people want". I wanna slit my wrists when I hear that... ridiculous I tell ya. They make too many cars with too many options period ! That is US autos biggest problem. Too many non profitable arms with all those models.

[NJ Chutzpah]

Yes we should let it fail

Why not

Are you sure millions of jobs would be lost

I mean they have been losing their share of the market for a long time, I am pretty sure most of their people were laid off over the past two decades

I do not think it will be that big of a deal, same with all the other american car makers

[drjones96]

Originally Posted by NJ Chutzpah

Yes we should let it fail

Why not

Are you sure millions of jobs would be lost

I mean they have been losing their share of the market for a long time, I am pretty sure most of their people were laid off over the past two decades

I do not think it will be that big of a deal, same with all the other american car makers

Well there's only one way to find out what the impact will be. Stand back and watch it blow up. Maybe you won't get any on you.

[cpg35223]

I think bankruptcy is their best option. Then they can throw out all those incredibly bone-headed short-sighted union contracts that add thousands of dollars to the cost of every car.

Of course, the company has been bankrupt for years in terms of creativity. The day the CEO said that GM customers just weren't interested in the price of gas, I knew this company's days were numbered.