Your opinion; should we let GM die? Yes or no. (real estate, credit)

[CarolinaWoman]

Originally Posted by Stephan_K

It's funny, ever since gas went through the roof all the SUV owners and people in general act like GM & F MADE everyone buy SUV's. Like they didn't have a choice of one of the other 10,000 model vehicles they make...

And all you hear is "they don't make cars people want". I wanna slit my wrists when I hear that... ridiculous I tell ya. They make too many cars with too many options period ! That is US autos biggest problem. Too many non profitable arms with all those models.

Ain't that the truth! My Soccer Mom daughter with her SUV just moaned amd groaned when gasoline went sky high ... poor thing.

But I believe all these years the gov't and big oil companies contributed in not allowing our American auto manufacturers to produce electric cars or hybrids. I am sure they were on the drawing boards and they produced prototypes but that wasn't what the American consumers wanted ... nor the big oil companies.

But to bail out GM & Ford in their present conditions, it's a gamble, the only way would be to restructure the whole kit and kaboodle. And that is once again the gov't getting into the car business, we are already in the banking and insurance business.

[Stephan_K]

Originally Posted by teatime

Weeeeeeelllll, that's not exactly true. The last time I went car shopping in '04, there really weren't that many GM cars that struck my fancy. I wanted something small that got good gas mileage and had some room for carrying odd or big items. Something that I could afford and was well-made, too.

There were VERY few cars that fit the bill --

One can satisfy all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time. Nature of the beast and EVERY business in the world let alone auto maker will hear the very same argument.

Obviously the specific vehicle and options you were looking for was in very little to no demand period ! Supply of every model car and available option is impossible by any one manufacturer. That is why they call it the automobile market ! I'd like nothing more than to see F & GM be able to supply the world with every vehicle and accommodate every option needed but that is just impossible to do and they need to stop trying to do just that ! It doesn't work...

[Hungry For Cheese]

Let em die...many companies die...why should the government bail some out, but not others. Let's just get it over with and let China take over already. Or Japan.

[cpg35223]

I'll give you a big fat case in point about GM. Back last year, we were buying a crossover. So we go to the Saturn dealership to look at the Vue (I think that's what it's called). The salesguy was poorly trained and not terribly enthusiastic about the product. So we get into the thing. The door closing sounded flimsy. The thing drove like a tank and couldn't accelerated up a good sized hill. Plus it was comparably priced to Japanese models in the category.

So then we go to Mazda and look at the MX9. OMG, total difference. The salesman was sharp, the car drove beautifully, was smooth as silk, and had all kinds of extras--all for about 2,500 more than the Saturn.

As it turned out, we decided that we liked the Ford Freestyle best of all. All things being equal, the Mazda was a better car, but the Ford was 10K less, and had 0% financing--plus it was way better than the Saturn. So at least Ford understands that you have to slap a lower price tag on the thing if you can't beat the Japanese on quality.

[Stephan_K]

Originally Posted by CarolinaWoman

But I believe all these years the gov't and big oil companies contributed in not allowing our American auto manufacturers to produce electric cars or hybrids. I am sure they were on the drawing boards and they produced prototypes but that wasn't what the American consumers wanted ... nor the big oil companies.

I agree completely. I think US auto has been on a very short leash. Most don't realize US auto has a boss too... I'm sure the Gov boss will find middle ground for US auto and big oil so everybody is satisfied, may not be happy but all will be satisfied.

Originally Posted by CarolinaWoman

But to bail out GM & Ford in their present conditions, it's a gamble, the only way would be to restructure the whole kit and kaboodle. And that is once again the gov't getting into the car business, we are already in the banking and insurance business.

We have the worlds best swindlers representing our Gov... everything will be just fine when it's all said and done. US auto will retool, banks will become lenders again, and everyone but the people will continue to get rich.

Business as usual and the agenda will go on... Change... What change ?

[drjones96]

I completely agree with what cpg is saying. I'm not a Ford man myself but the Freestyle certainly does have a lot to offer for that catagory of vehicle for the money.

GM cars (as well as Ford and Chrysler) have gone way off the mark on price. I'll give you an example. In 1991 my dad bought an S10 pickup for just a shade over $10k. 5 years later the same truck with same basic options was $15k. 5 years later it grew to nearly $20k. OK the thing inflated 100% in price without any advance in technology. In fact the engines were exactly the same! Yes the body style changed but not to the point that it should justify that kind of price increase!

[in_newengland]

GM didn't pay attention to what the American public wanted back in the 1970s during the oil crisis. We wanted smaller, more fuel efficient cars. We had to buy foreign cars to get what we wanted. GM watched us buying foreign cars and did nothing.

How many years has it been? They still churn out huge, wasteful cars and market those cars. They could have made a different choice and given us what we wanted. With all the advertising they have done for their gas guzzlers, they could have been marketing economical cars and people would have bought them. Then GM wouldn't be in trouble. They deserve what they get.

[drjones96]

Originally Posted by in_newengland

GM didn't pay attention to what the American public wanted back in the 1970s during the oil crisis. We wanted smaller, more fuel efficient cars. We had to buy foreign cars to get what we wanted. GM watched us buying foreign cars and did nothing.

How many years has it been? They still churn out huge, wasteful cars and market those cars. They could have made a different choice and given us what we wanted. With all the advertising they have done for their gas guzzlers, they could have been marketing economical cars and people would have bought them. Then GM wouldn't be in trouble. They deserve what they get.

Ah but in the '90's and early '00's they WERE giving the American people what they wanted. Gas prices were low and stable. SUV's were in high demand. Do you not remember? It wasn't until gas prices started going crazy that people decided that SUV's were a bad thing. And now because GM were giving people what they wanted they are now in the crapper because everybody wants them to do a 180 and go from having an infrastructure designed around SUV's to making fuel efficient cars. Unfortunately for them (and their many employees and their families) they aren't that flexible.

[teatime]

Not true. I wanted what amounted to a sport wagon or crossover vehicle. Some quick facts on their popularity:

While the segment has notable historical antecedants, it had come into strong visibility in the US by 2006, when crossover sales "made up more than 50% of the overall SUV market." [4] Sales in the crossover market segment increased in 2007 by 16%,[3] Notably, the crossover segment is one of the few segments of the light truck market where import brands lead domestic brands, [1] and the segment has strong appeal to aging baby boomers.[1]

Crossover (automobile) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That's why I used my buying experience as an example. There was INDEED a market for these vehicles and GM was actually in the forefront of it with the Vibe and the 9-2X but they kept on with SUVs instead.

Originally Posted by Stephan_K

One can satisfy all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time. Nature of the beast and EVERY business in the world let alone auto maker will hear the very same argument.

Obviously the specific vehicle and options you were looking for was in very little to no demand period ! Supply of every model car and available option is impossible by any one manufacturer. That is why they call it the automobile market ! I'd like nothing more than to see F & GM be able to supply the world with every vehicle and accommodate every option needed but that is just impossible to do and they need to stop trying to do just that ! It doesn't work...

[Stephan_K]

Originally Posted by teatime

Not true. I wanted what amounted to a sport wagon or crossover vehicle. Some quick facts on their popularity:



Crossover (automobile) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That's why I used my buying experience as an example. There was INDEED a market for these vehicles and GM was actually in the forefront of it with the Vibe and the 9-2X but they kept on with SUVs instead.

GM's marketing didn't see a demand for the product you wanted with the options you required in 04. Obviously they did for the same with different options though... You can't say they didn't make a vehicle in demand !

Goes back to my original statement "One can satisfy all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time."