GM bailout poll, yes or no? (bankruptcy, insurance, credit, purchase)

[ANewDay2008]

Not anymore.


GM's not going to change their bad habits.



And there are other up and coming American alternative energy automakers (Tesla, Phoenix Motorcars, Miles Electric, etc.) that need those very dollars that GM's begging for to put their vehicles into mass production to drive down the costs for American consumers. Why aren't those automakers getting help from the U.S. government?

[drjones96]

Originally Posted by ANewDay2008

Not anymore.


GM's not going to change their bad habits.



And there are other up and coming American alternative energy automakers (Tesla, Phoenix Motorcars, Miles Electric, etc.) that need those very dollars that GM's begging for to put their vehicles into mass production to drive down the costs for American consumers. Why aren't those automakers getting help from the U.S. government?

Good question. But we all know the answer. The Big 3 get the funds because they are the Big 3.

[Nepenthe]

I thought this forum was unmoderated...

I guess I've had a certain amount of fear drummed into me over the past week about what a GM collapse would mean, here, on CNBC, on Autoblog, and on sites like Seeking Alpha. Yikes.

As much as I like the idea of the market taking care of things and maybe GM emerging with a much smaller and smarter line of cars down the road, we seem to be in unprecedented times and GM seems to be defining the "too big to fail" meme.

Government would do well to ease up on the ever-increasing safety and emissions regulations. These add weight and huge amounts of development dollars which run counter to the drive for better fuel efficiency.

Here's what GM has to say: The demise of the American auto industry won’t really affect the American way of life. | GM Facts and Fiction

Here are the GM products I think should/would survive in the ideal lean GM near future:
-------------------------
Cadillac CTS sedan -- rear-wheel drive near-luxury sedan, V6 only, kill the V, kill the coupe
Corvette coupe -- don't call it a Chevrolet, call it a Corvette, forget the convertible, ZR1, Z06, C6R/racing effort, bring out a smaller, lighter, simpler V6 C7 Corvette with modern/retro/C3 looks
Volt sedan -- "halo" green car/technology showcase that initially sells in small quantities (it's going to be EXPENSIVE) but leads to better things and serves to strengthen the image of GM in the average consumer's mind (but don't call it a Chevrolet)
-------------------------
Chevrolet Malibu -- front-wheel drive sedan, latest model has done well in sales and comparisons/reviews, bring out new model
Chevrolet Cobalt sedan -- kill the Supercharged SS, kill the coupe, then transition this to the new Cruze
Chevrolet Beat -- work with the US government (see safety and emissions above) to be able to fast track this small car to US showrooms
-------------------------
GMC truck -- I don't know much about trucks, but they should keep a truck in the lineup for fleet and work/utility purposes, but instead of having three bed lengths, seven engines, three transmissions, four differentials, three cabs, make it a basic truck that does truck things
-------------------------
SUVs: either the Traverse -- mid-size SUV remnant or the Aura -- crossover SUV remnant, not sure what to badge them
-------------------------
Sell Saab and Vauxhall off completely, eliminate the Pontiac, Buick, Hummer, Daewoo, and Saturn nameplates in the US and all model lines for them. Kill the giant SUVs and the garbage like the Aveo and all other extraneous models (Solstice, etc.). Badge the cars above Holden, Opel, and Buick in appropriate markets.

There's a relatively complete model line in eight or nine vehicles. Luxury/rear-wheel drive, sports car, green electric car, front-drive mid-size sedan, small sedan, subcompact city car, basic truck, mid-size SUV, small/crossover SUV...

[58robbo]

Originally Posted by drjones96

If I were congress I'd bail them out only under specific conditions.

One of which is that they change directions with their product line overall. They need to build good quality fuel efficient cars....not $h!tboxes with wheels that happen to get good fuel economy. GM seems to be trying...but nothing seems to really get off the ground. The Volt seems like a good car concept but it's too expensive for what it is. They just need something to keep up with the market today. Hybrids.

And they need to build fewer trucks and SUV's. If fuel usage is a problem then the government needs to regulate the number of gas guzzlers that can be produced. And hey...if they're the ones bailing the auto industry out then they make the call.

They need to spend the money to re-tool their existing factories in the US to build these cars here....not shut the doors on these plants and ship all the work to Mexico. They need to keep the jobs where they are and salvage as many of them as they can. If not then bailing them out does nothing to support our economy. It's the workers that keep it going by paying their bills and being consumers. If they aren't paying their bills and buying goods then that's where the problem starts.

But by the same token they've got to shut out the UAW. This will be an endless cycle if not. Assembly workers have to understand that only having a high school education doesn't entitle them to have a $70k salary, benefits, pension that someone who graduated from college gets. Sorry.

i sort of disagree with what you are saying. everyone believes hybrids, electric, fuel cell cars are the solution. i don't. they are a small part of the solution however. the american consumer for the most part is broke. we need to tighten our belts and drive what we have for another 10 years and save our money. WE DEFINITELY DON'T NEED TO GET INTO MORE DEBT!
what automakers should be doing is looking at countries who have saved money. there you will find consumers who can afford cars. they should be identifying what cars these people want and adjust accordingly.

so imo gm's first priority is to step up its exports. the second priority is to manufacture cars which we can afford. by afford i mean what people can pay cash for or pay off over a maximum of 2 years. unfortunately that leaves us with cars like the geo metro. we need to understand that the bells and whistles are for rich people and that our buy now pay later mentality is killing us, our economy and our country.

here is an example: 100000 rupees at today's exchange = us$2055
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/dri...cle3164205.ece

[58robbo]

Originally Posted by ANewDay2008

Not anymore.


GM's not going to change their bad habits.



And there are other up and coming American alternative energy automakers (Tesla, Phoenix Motorcars, Miles Electric, etc.) that need those very dollars that GM's begging for to put their vehicles into mass production to drive down the costs for American consumers. Why aren't those automakers getting help from the U.S. government?

i agree with this though this is still at the top of the market.

[roncorey1]

Originally Posted by floridasandy

should GM be bailed out? this is a supplement to the question previously asked.

The fat-cat banking folks got it; so why shouldn't an industry full of jobs in which people actually WORK for a living get it?

The Japanese, Korean, and German automakers would definitely get bail-out money from their governments if they needed it; so why not GM?

Think about the billions and billions wasted in Iraq and Afghanistan.....what's wrong with investing in ourselves for a change?

But, I do think that their should be plenty of strings attached; such as ensuring that some of that money goes into U.S. based manufacturing plants and not the ones in Europe, China, and Mexico!

[roncorey1]

Everyone should read this from the Detroit News:
Commentary: Detroit will never be the same | The Detroit News | detnews.com

[Lincolnian]

The failure of the Big 3 would adversely affect up to 2.5 million jobs. Anyone who thinks that a lose of 2.5 million jobs is not going to have rippling negative affects on the general economy is misguided.

Jim Cramer specifically addressed this very point the other night on his show. He stated that his Wall Street friends were adamant about not bailing out the greedy unionized Big 3 blaming the management, pensions, and of course the greedy "overpaid" autoworkers. He correctly pointed out that GM, in particular, had negotiated recent contracts making the wages and compensations more on par with foreign competitors. Additionally GM has made substantial changes to their product mix to offer smaller, more fuel-efficient and higher quality automobiles that are competitive with manufacturers such as Toyota and Honda.

It is ironic how many of the same people saw who screamed for the $750 billion to our Financial Titans whose CEOs had gambled away our economic prosperity while being "justly compensated" hundreds of millions of dollars would be unwilling to support an industry that employs millions of middle-class people.

[58robbo]

Originally Posted by Lincolnian

The failure of the Big 3 would adversely affect up to 2.5 million jobs. Anyone who thinks that a lose of 2.5 million jobs is not going to have rippling negative affects on the general economy is misguided.

Jim Cramer specifically addressed this very point the other night on his show. He stated that his Wall Street friends were adamant about not bailing out the greedy unionized Big 3 blaming the management, pensions, and of course the greedy "overpaid" autoworkers. He correctly pointed out that GM, in particular, had negotiated recent contracts making the wages and compensations more on par with foreign competitors. Additionally GM has made substantial changes to their product mix to offer smaller, more fuel-efficient and higher quality automobiles that are competitive with manufacturers such as Toyota and Honda.

It is ironic how many of the same people saw who screamed for the $750 billion to our Financial Titans whose CEOs had gambled away our economic prosperity while being "justly compensated" hundreds of millions of dollars would be unwilling to support an industry that employs millions of middle-class people.

i don't think anyone says that 2.5 million jobs loses is a good thing. we aren't retarted, but at some point it is inevitable. they can throw whatever amount they want at detroit and the problem won't be fixed. gm is badly managed, inefficient and overgrown. in an ideal world, it would be sold off in pieces, 10 or 20 new brands would come out of the ashes and we'd have a competitve auto industry. and no, they shouldn't have bailed out the banks either

[jimmyP]

We have a process in this country for distressed companies. It's called Chapter 11 and GM should read up on it and follow the process like countless other companies have. This government bail out nonsense has to stop or we will all be finished.