GM bailout poll, yes or no? (loans, visa, mastercard, financing)

[58robbo]

Originally Posted by Stephan_K

Day or reckoning... Do you have some kind of crystal ball or something ? How does anyone know that GM/F/DAI will not come out of this in flying colors ?

If the Gov (AND big man Barack stands by his words of alternative energy) allows them to say f*** big oil, then these guys retool for the future and most likely end up being THE auto maker of choice worldwide... I know wishful thinking .

"adversely affected" you say... That like saying Hurricane Catrina was just a shower ! I surely DON'T want to see what happens if the REVENUE generated by US auto disappears ! THAT EFFECTS EVERYONE EVERYWHERE. NO ONE IS IMMUNE !!! If US auto goes, a huge chunk of the US might as well move to Mexico as conditions there will be better...

I said it before and I'll say it again, I would like nothing more than to see the world go BK and everyone start over. But the world is too scared to go down that road. So if things are going to get prop up, you got to go all the way with it, nothing half a$$ed... Go for broke ! If not we're all going to end up there eventually anyhow...

now go back and read my post. if you don't get it, then read it again. when you notice that i said that WE WILL ALL BE AFFECTED then comment!


....and yes, i do have a crystal ball and it's telling me that we're throwing good money after bad. just by the way, what do you think will happen if gm files for chapter 11? do you think that everything closes down and those plants rot? have you not considered that whomever takes over might want to restructure and manufacture cars again?

[Stephan_K]

I've read and reread your post and I fail to see where you state

Originally Posted by 58robbo

WE WILL ALL BE AFFECTED

"i don't understand that there are people out there who think that because a gm bankruptcy will affect them that the government should do the wrong thing and bail gm out. we all know that we will be adversely affected but the longer we delay the day of reckoning, the tougher it'll be! "

If by that you mean "we all know that we will be adversely affected"

Then I have the following to say/ask. Who is "we all" because pretty much everyone I hear on the subject has no clue what the words adversely affected means and has no idea what economic affects a GM BK will bring. Are you the spokes person for "we all" now ? Humm... Because if you actually knew the extent of what those words meant with a GM BK, I'm sure you wouldn't be wishing for it !

Originally Posted by 58robbo

....and yes, i do have a crystal ball and it's telling me that we're throwing good money after bad. just by the way, what do you think will happen if gm files for chapter 11? do you think that everything closes down and those plants rot? have you not considered that whomever takes over might want to restructure and manufacture cars again?

How many new products have you ever purchased from a BK company ? NONE you say... Oh, and how many cars do you think people will buy from a BK company... NONE you say... Oh. I'll let you do the math on the outcome of that scenario.

If GM files for BK, they might as well close down, liquidate what they can and let the rest rot. Similar to what Rick Wagoner said in his interview and exactly what every CEO in the corp. world will tell you. Now if you have corp. business BK experience, you might want to get a hold of Rick and instruct him on what to do next... I'm sure he will be eager to hear from you.

GM/F have been trying to retool and want nothing more than to restructure for the future. The slowing economy and dried up credit has caused sales to plummet in turn bringing a halt in their retooling. They will get there, it just can't be done on a moments notice like everyone thinks. And HOPEFULLY now that the Gov will have a stake in things, maybe they can get some of the UAW robbery restructured too. We'll see what medium is found...

[58robbo]

Originally Posted by Stephan_K

I've read and reread your post and I fail to see where you state



"i don't understand that there are people out there who think that because a gm bankruptcy will affect them that the government should do the wrong thing and bail gm out. we all know that we will be adversely affected but the longer we delay the day of reckoning, the tougher it'll be! "

If by that you mean "we all know that we will be adversely affected"

Then I have the following to say/ask. Who is "we all" because pretty much everyone I hear on the subject has no clue what the words adversely affected means and has no idea what economic affects a GM BK will bring. Are you the spokes person for "we all" now ? Humm... Because if you actually knew the extent of what those words meant with a GM BK, I'm sure you wouldn't be wishing for it !





How many new products have you ever purchased from a BK company ? NONE you say... Oh, and how many cars do you think people will buy from a BK company... NONE you say... Oh. I'll let you do the math on the outcome of that scenario.

If GM files for BK, they might as well close down, liquidate what they can and let the rest rot. Similar to what Rick Wagoner said in his interview and exactly what every CEO in the corp. world will tell you. Now if you have corp. business BK experience, you might want to get a hold of Rick and instruct him on what to do next... I'm sure he will be eager to hear from you.

GM/F have been trying to retool and want nothing more than to restructure for the future. The slowing economy and dried up credit has caused sales to plummet in turn bringing a halt in their retooling. They will get there, it just can't be done on a moments notice like everyone thinks. And HOPEFULLY now that the Gov will have a stake in things, maybe they can get some of the UAW robbery restructured too. We'll see what medium is found...

we will all be adversely affected by the bankruptcy of GM. i am well aware of the economic disaster that a gm bankruptcy will bring with it. i also know that by bailing them out the process is simply delayed and it sets a terrible precedent.
our country is changing. for decades we've relied on debt growth to fuel our economy. at this moment in time the american consumer by and large is maxed out. we can no longer consume our way out of depression. bailing gm out and creating false consumer demand is just kicking the can down the road. at some point we have to face the music.

as for rick wagoner, i'm sure he won't want to hear from me. if it was up to me he'd be looking for a job.

[Stephan_K]

Originally Posted by 58robbo

as for rick wagoner, i'm sure he won't want to hear from me. If it was up to me he'd be looking for a job.

:d

[Stephan_K]

Originally Posted by 58robbo

our country is changing. for decades we've relied on debt growth to fuel our economy. at this moment in time the american consumer by and large is maxed out. we can no longer consume our way out of depression.

Definitely... how long can one rob Peter to pay Paul ?! I guess until there isn't anything else left to rob. With the current "bailouts" in play, there is still something to rob and the day of reckoning as you put it is still a long ways off.

And the agenda continues on !

[jimmyP]

The fact that Rick Waggoner is still gainfully employed at GM after 30 years of failure and serial restructurings tells the whole story. This is exactly why this company does not deserve a bailout from taxpayers. They are not serious about addressing their problems.

[happycamper5]

Originally Posted by floridasandy

should GM be bailed out? this is a supplement to the question previously asked.

cut profits,cut CEO fat checks, add more robots,less union workers, AND BUILD A BETTER PRODUCT or they have the same demise as T.V's and the millions of other products we do not mfg. here anymore!!!

[GregW]

I'll agree to a bailout only if the government obtains an equity share and has a couple of people on the board of directors.

[58robbo]

Originally Posted by GregW

I'll agree to a bailout only if the government obtains an equity share and has a couple of people on the board of directors.

government involvement will make it worse. gm needs to file for chapter 11 and must be sold either as a going concern or in pieces.

[goodbyehollywood]

We really don't have a say in what the government does, anymore. Our representatives pass the bills they want, then change them whenever it suits their purposes. Some 80% of the people were against the bailout bill, yet their representatives passed it, knowing they were going against their constituents. It will be more of the same with the auto industry... then whatever comes next. And there will be a next... and a next... and a next... Perhaps it would be more palatable, if they were more knowledgeable or less self-serving, but c'mon? We the People is a farce.