No need for H-1B Visas with Unemployment Rates at new highs...right??? (collection, buying)

[runningncircles1]

Originally Posted by mimimomx3

I think it might also have to do with the fact that students see the degree to which tech companies are happy to outsource. Why go through the aggravation of CS/Engineering when you'll be employed and then end up training your substitute overseas? Better to go to med school, vet school, dental school, yes, even IB if you have math aptitude or even....law school. When will we begin outsourcing lawyers???

Well, this whole thread is about problems with H-1B visas. Which is IMPORTING labor. Now, why import the labor and be subject to American compensation laws (i.e. not paying $3/hr as many have insinuated about exported labor) AND pay similar wages/salaries (believe me, they pay the same for foreigners as they do Americans) as well as paying immigration lawyers to get said visas? Let's not forget about benefits and such. They ended up paying MORE to recruit the foreign worker than to recruit an American worker. WHY would they do that to SAVE money? That's illogical. Unless they have trouble finding qualified workers here... then it makes sense.

I've been about to find a job in computing since age 15, and I'm not worried about not finding one. Microsoft, IBM, Google... they all recruit here. They recruit American students AND foreign students. The notion that you can't get a job with a CS/CmpE degree is laughable.

[mimimomx3]

Originally Posted by runningncircles1

Well, this whole thread is about problems with H-1B visas. Which is IMPORTING labor. Now, why import the labor and be subject to American compensation laws (i.e. not paying $3/hr as many have insinuated about exported labor) AND pay similar wages/salaries (believe me, they pay the same for foreigners as they do Americans) .

They don't pay similar wages than they do for American workers. They usually pay hourly and substantially less. These are temporary positions, and usually do not pay benefits. These employees are contract labor and are easily dispensed with. H1B workers have brought down salaries and the whole corporate culture/ employer-employee relationship. In their desperation to flee their poverty laden and overpopulated countries they have ruined middle class professional America.

[StoneOne]

Originally Posted by mimimomx3

They don't pay similar wages than they do for American workers. They usually pay hourly and substantially less. These are temporary positions, and usually do not pay benefits. These employees are contract labor and are easily dispensed with. H1B workers have brought down salaries and the whole corporate culture/ employer-employee relationship. In their desperation to flee their poverty laden and overpopulated countries they have ruined middle class professional America.

Those who play the victim are destined to be the victim.

[sheenie2000]

Originally Posted by runningncircles1

Well, this whole thread is about problems with H-1B visas. Which is IMPORTING labor. Now, why import the labor and be subject to American compensation laws (i.e. not paying $3/hr as many have insinuated about exported labor) AND pay similar wages/salaries (believe me, they pay the same for foreigners as they do Americans) as well as paying immigration lawyers to get said visas? Let's not forget about benefits and such. They ended up paying MORE to recruit the foreign worker than to recruit an American worker. WHY would they do that to SAVE money? That's illogical. Unless they have trouble finding qualified workers here... then it makes sense.

I've been about to find a job in computing since age 15, and I'm not worried about not finding one. Microsoft, IBM, Google... they all recruit here. They recruit American students AND foreign students. The notion that you can't get a job with a CS/CmpE degree is laughable.

I think it's much harder to find a full time job. It's quite easy to get a contract job if you have the experience and know what you are doing. I get calls and offers all the time for contract positions.

I also think if you are looking for a full time in a specific location (with specific skillset) it makes it even harder. Nothing comes up for full time in the Charlotte area for a Performance Engineer which is what my husband is. My other friend has a skillset of Business Objects and can't get a FT job either. And another friend also doesn't have a FT job either, I can't remember his skillset. You could say all have issues interviewing or something like that. But why are they immediately hired for contract positions and always pass technical interviews and behavioral interviews 100%? They obviously know their stuff.

I also don't think companies are hiring foreign workers on a full time basis, they are bringing them in as contractors and then they can easily let them go once the project ends.

If a company hires a foreign worker FT that needs employment sponsership they aren't paying them the same rate (in what I have been told and seen). I saw everyone's salaries at my old job and people who needed employment sponsership were paid less even if they had more experience. Or the company gave them a lower position even though they were qualified to be say a senior programmer. The people themselves mentioned this to me. So I disagree that they are getting paid the same as an American worker.

[StoneOne]

Originally Posted by sheenie2000

I also think if you are looking for a full time in a specific location (with specific skillset) it makes it even harder. Nothing comes up for full time in the Charlotte area for a Performance Engineer which is what my husband is.

This is a trend that Americans are going to have to get used to, as more businesses are finding it more advantageous to use contract work than full-time employees.

As a contractor myself, I feel much more secure having multiple revenue streams than the supposed "security" of full-time employment. Whereas full-time employees can be required to do all sorts of things like sign non-compete agreements, contractors generally only have to sign client confidentiality agreements. They are generally free to work for whomever they choose and wherever.

Why anyone would be hung up on getting a full-time job when there are endless possibilities for contract work is beyond me.

[sheenie2000]

Originally Posted by mimimomx3

In their desperation to flee their poverty laden and overpopulated countries they have ruined middle class professional America.

Well I wouldn't go that far. What's wrong with people who are in poverty seeking a better life?

What ruined middle class America are the greedy corporations.

They weren't looking out for what's best for the people, they were doing what's best for themselves.

So what's the solution?

[sheenie2000]

Originally Posted by StoneOne

This is a trend that Americans are going to have to get used to, as more businesses are finding it more advantageous to use contract work than full-time employees.

As a contractor myself, I feel much more secure having multiple revenue streams than the supposed "security" of full-time employment. Whereas full-time employees can be required to do all sorts of things like sign non-compete agreements, contractors generally only have to sign client confidentiality agreements. They are generally free to work for whomever they choose and wherever.

Why anyone would be hung up on getting a full-time job when there are endless possibilities for contract work is beyond me.

I see your points and they are good ones. One thing as a contractor you are always learning new things and with technology changing so rapidly in this field, it's good to be moving around in different projects and different companies.
The downside of being a contractor is you either have to be willing to travel to different locations which could be out of state. You always have to be looking for new projects when your project ends and constantly interviewing. (Yes, you do get used to it though but it's still a pain). It could be a couple months without a project or even longer if you are just looking in a specific location. The other thing is benefits. It's expensive to buy it privately. We were paying 900 bucks/month for private insurance before I got a FT job. Lastly, for most people having a daily routine and schedule is something they'd rather have. Not everyone is ok with the contractor lifestyle. I think also, we've been programmed here to get a FT job with benefits and that's it.

[GregW]

As corporations are creations of the government for the benefit of the investors they should be subject to any and all regulations the government sees fit to apply. Restricting H1-b immigrations is just another (needed) variation on buy American products. Before they import labor, companies should employ Americans. If the companies are unable to afford American workers then they should collapse and take the managers and stockholders down with the employees. Corporations are neither immortal nor sacred.

[Woof]

Originally Posted by runningncircles1

I can also tell you that everyone I know that has graduated from my school in CS has found a job w/o experience. It's not worth a grain of salt, however.

Now, I know one problem in the field of engineering AND CS is age discrimination. As one gets older, if they haven't updated their skill set, they have a hard time finding a job. Unfortunately, CmpE/CS aren't fields where you can just get a degree/training and be set for life. It changes too quickly. New languages come about, infrastructure changes, and consumer needs change. However, having an actual understanding of the principles underlying those changes will allow a person to learn new things fairly easily. The principles change little if any and are the foundation of any new language, technology, etc.

Many programmers just learn syntax and some hardware. That is why they are merely "coders" and not computer scientists, and become dispensable when older. A true computer scientist shouldn't have trouble updating with the times if they've learned their fundamentals well.

As far as I know, every beginning cs student is taught how write algoriths that can be easily translated into any particular language, and how to write structured modular code.

From the things I've heard, the imported programmers often don't even have that much training, although they might know a specific language or two.

Programming isn't rocket surgery, most logically-minded people could learn to code well in one particular language in half a year, if all the extraneous courses were eliminated.

There's no need to go abroad for programmers, not unless it's some hugely intricate project needing a graduate degree in math.

Check this video out to find out why employers are doing this:

Originally Posted by Woof

YouTube - PERM Fake Job Ads defraud Americans to secure green cards fo

[elikhom]

I say bring all of them to the US, I have benefited a lot from colleagues both American AND foreign, nothing like working on an stimulating environment where my peers are as smart or smarter than me to make me even better. Competition breeds improvement and innovation. The only way to remain in the top of the food chain is have to the best working for and with me.
Why on earth I would like to have smart people working on the UK, Germany, Australia, Canada, France, etc if I can have them here and learn from them.

In fact I'd go even further and give permanent residency to everyone who has an IQ above 130 and can demonstrate proficiency in any field, yes I'm elitist like that. j/k