News, Ford gets UAW to accept $55/hour wages. (paycheck, money, benefits)

[texdav]

The uniuon drove the company as much intot eh ground as the management di. There is a reason they kept making those trucks and SUV's because the added cost from legacy was so high on evry vehicle. They bascially got into a position that tehy could compete on small lower cost vehicles. i mean look at the deal wehere if they didn't have work for a worker they had to let him/her sit in a room and get paid. Did teh unions really believe that this was good for them or the countries competitiveness. The union bascially price themselves out of a job and the compnmay officals made stupid decisions.In the end the unions will suffer and the company will be much smaller with alot less sales to support those legacy cost.From my understanding the older union members made the lower wages apply only to new hires in thier last contract.So much for union brotherhood too.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by texdav

i mean look at the deal wehere if they didn't have work for a worker they had to let him/her sit in a room and get paid. Did teh unions really believe that this was good for them or the countries competitiveness.

You need to understand why that was placed in the contract. A great pay scale and benefits package is worth nothing without job security. That was a way (the union thought) to force the company to stop outsourcing their work. This is something that should concern every American.

Yet the company chose to pay workers to not make their product here in the States and outsource it to 3rd world countries. If the union had its way there would be no one in the job bank because they'd all be building cars on the assembly line.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by NYMD67

Here is the thing.. I didn't write the article. I read it.

See that's the problem, you believe what you read without actually doing any research.

You said your mom never made 6 figures. She also probably didn't work 80 hours a week.

I don't think $14-$28/hr is asking too much for skilled labor. Hell you pay a shop $100/hr for the mechanic to fix your car.

[smellykat]

Originally Posted by NYMD67

Here is the thing.. I didn't write the article. I read it. A gentleman who is a forklift operator at DELPHI is concerned about his $103K salary being cut. He won't be able to afford to send his children to college. sad. Others were interviewed and are upset because they don't know how they are going to be able to afford that 2nd home they have anymore. again-sad.
You are correct,I don't know all the facts,maybe he really does work 365 days a year-I don't think he does,but maybe he does.?
I am just quoting something that I read that I find ridiculous. There is no way that anyone operating a forklift should be making a 6figure income,no matter how hard he works.sad but true.

Here is the other thing... seems Delphi & GM have won a step up in their battle for retiree health benefits. Now,I certainly don't agree that they should have been taken away to begin with,certainly they could cut that $103K salary and many other 60-90K salaries they have going on there and not take away health care benefits for people who can't afford them.
So,for those saying that their benefits are going away, don't worry,looks like you are going to be saved afterall.
Oh and here's the thing... my mom is a surgical RN,worked at a hospital for 35 years,you know,saving lives,things like that... guess what?? the hospital was taken over by different management company and oh no-all retirees now have no health care. My mom worked just as hard as that retiree from DELPHI or from GM and you know what-she NEVER made even close to $103K a year to help save lives. Now,she may have to go back to work,just so she can pay for her healthcare. No one is going to give them back their benefits though.
Sad.
SO please,sorry that there are people here who are having a hard time with the criticism of the Auto Industry,GM in particular,but the truth is, you are all very much overpaid for what you do.
I hope that things start picking up for the industry,I really do. I hope people can keep their jobs,but not at the salaries they are making.

Delphi is in bankruptcy. The forklift operator's pay rate has already been cut. As I stated before, the highest rate of pay would have been $28/hr. Are you referring to Delphi's salaried retirees being awarded funds for a VEBA for their health care? Your mother and fellow nurses should take legal action to do the same. GM has not reached any agreement with the UAW on the health care funds for the retirees as of this date. Overpaid - yes, the automakers' executives certainly are way too highly compensated. Boo-woo to the financial sector and AIG - $365 billion (UPI) given to them by our government with no accountability.

[NYMD67]

Originally Posted by smellykat

Delphi is in bankruptcy. The forklift operator's pay rate has already been cut. As I stated before, the highest rate of pay would have been $28/hr. Are you referring to Delphi's salaried retirees being awarded funds for a VEBA for their health care? Your mother and fellow nurses should take legal action to do the same. GM has not reached any agreement with the UAW on the health care funds for the retirees as of this date. Overpaid - yes, the automakers' executives certainly are way too highly compensated. Boo-woo to the financial sector and AIG - $365 billion (UPI) given to them by our government with no accountability.

There are SO MANY people that are retired these days who's company doesn't cover their health benefits. I have a very close friend who's husband worked for the same company since graduating from college (approx 22 years), they relocated them to NC,and 3 months later,they shut their doors. Not even a warning! Nothing,they got no severance,no extended health care (Cobra for awhile) but that was it!
That is what happens in the real world and my point of this entire thing is that these people are just whining about their poor pay cuts,etc.. while the rest of the USA is struggling.
No,I don't think that $14 an hour is a fair pay wage,but it is when you compare it to what other countries are paying their employees to do the same job and that is why they aren't bankrupt!
DELPHI also gave their hourly people $30K a year for 3 years to "help" with the "hardship of having their pay cut" that is great,but again,no one else gets that. My mom didn't get any kind of "help" and neither did my friend's husband. They got "thanks for all your help all these years,see you later".
Their pay and benefits need to be kept at a competetive wage.

I am pretty much finished with this subject because yes,I admit,I don't know all that there is to the entire thing. What I know is what I read and sorry-I do believe things I read in FORBES and The Washington Post and I have family who work for DELPHI in Western NY and I believe what they tell us. That they work alot of OT,they sit around sometimes because there isn't any work to do and they get a whole lot of vacation time that others don't get!
Washington has pretty much told DELPHI they need to work out whatever it is that is going to be worked out with GM or deal with liquidation.. hopefully it doesn't come to that,but they (GM,UAW) need to do some bigger concessions.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by NYMD67

No,I don't think that $14 an hour is a fair pay wage,but it is when you compare it to what other countries are paying their employees to do the same job and that is why they aren't bankrupt!

So let me get this straight you feel it's necessary to compare pay to what other countries are paying for the same job? Never mind that that money goes a whole lot further in those 3rd world countries?

Wow. I really don't know what to say, it's pretty hard to argue against that mentality. I don't know what you do but I am SURE you are over paid when comparing your salary to what it pays in a 3rd world country as well.

I guess we should just force everyone in the middle class on down to live like this, then we can compete and get those jobs back!!

[NYMD67]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

So let me get this straight you feel it's necessary to compare pay to what other countries are paying for the same job? Never mind that that money goes a whole lot further in those 3rd world countries?

Wow. I really don't know what to say, it's pretty hard to argue against that mentality. I don't know what you do but I am SURE you are over paid when comparing your salary to what it pays in a 3rd world country as well.

I guess we should just force everyone in the middle class on down to live like this, then we can compete and get those jobs back!!

No, that is not how I feel. What I said was that apparently they are overpaid because part of the reason jobs are being outsourced to begin with is because they CAN pay the employees much less overseas. (sadly).
Again, I don't feel that anyone should be making $14/hr,but they shouldn't be making $103K a year either. That is all.
Please don't pass judgement on me because of the way I feel,I know way to many people that do work very,very hard for what they do,they spent many years in school and worked 2-3 jobs to get through college so that hopefully they could make a decent life for themselves and their families.
Yes,they work long weeks,as I said,my husband works anywhere from 12-16 hour days almost daily. That would put him at about a 65-70hr work week and he only gets paid for 40 of those hours.

Not that it is really any of your business,but I worked for a major hospitality company in their corp.office for many,many years prior to staying home with my children. I also worked 2 jobs while my husband worked on his Masters to help with the expenses.
Many of those people that I worked with are making well below even $28/hr...

You missed the entire point of this and you are free to think what you want,afterall, that is what these forums are all about.

[Steve Bagu]

Wait as minute...paying a mechanic $100 an hr to fix a car is incorrect.

As a former mechanic/business owner the $100 referred too is a dealers shop rate per hr. Actual costs on a job will vary for a certain repair job. They use a Flat Rate time book to follow as what to charge. At one time it was 50% shop owner and 50% mechanic on the labor charge. My middle son makes 40% on his shop labor at his independent work place. The rate per hr will vary at most shops.

Steve

[58robbo]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

They don't. They start at around $14/hr ($28k/yr) and experienced ones earn around $28/hr ($56k/yr).

Just a typical media and management tactic for which most people fall for.

I wonder if any of the front line employees at banks and investment firms are taking pay cuts? Funny how no one has brought that up. Yet THE SECOND blue collar working class citizens companies get in trouble the first thing to blame is that they make too much money. As a fellow union member I am sick of this ****.

the bottom line is that companies need to make money to survive. the problem with the way things are done today is that with all these credit facilities and govt guaranteeing debt, companies like gm and ford can run at losses for years on end. this way they can continue to overpay everyone from top to bottom. they can continue to fly corporate jets, offer unsustainable benefits etc.

if we want the US auto industry to survive, gm, ford and chrysler should be forced into chapter 7. if there is still demand for their products, someone will buy their plants. to continue to support corporations by providing false demand will help in the short term but ultimately it will fail big time!

what the government can do is to remove regulations. cafe standards, crash testing etc. they can also stop encouraging companies to provide excessive health benefits (which is what has led to the overpriced healthcare system we have today) the market will quickly work through products which are unsafe and uneconomical!

[PYT]

Originally Posted by Bideshi

A Chinese autoworkers makes $2 a day. How big a ballpark are we talking about?

The chinese auto industry is still very much premature and hasn't truly gained a sizeable market share. I think they are referring to actual market dominant competitors such as Toyota and Honda.