Jobs of the future - "green" jobs pay scale lower (wages, costs)

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by user_id

I'm not claiming that every single house listed for $60k is decent, rather that you can pretty easily find a decent house for $60k even within the major cities. The stuff outside of the city is cheaper and factories are almost always outside of the cities. I've never lived in Indianapolis, but in Columbus and Pittsburgh case I'd say around 25% of the listings in the $60k are of houses are decent. But these are larger cities and they have some degree of crime no matter where you live in them.

I have a buddy who lives out side Pittsburgh. The cheapest decent house he could find was around $110k. Below that you were a drive by shooting target.

[user_id]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

I have a buddy who lives out side Pittsburgh. The cheapest decent house he could find was around $110k. Below that you were a drive by shooting target.

This is complete hogwash. What did he look at one house? Monroeville is more of the nicer suburbs (there is no area that is high crime) and there are plenty of houses below $110k:

Page 2 | Monroeville, PA, Real Estate Listings and Monroeville Single Family Home for Sale - REALTOR.com®

There are cheaper suburbs though that are very far from "being a drive by shooting target". Actually, I doubt anybody in the area would even mention "drive by shootings" because they are not common in Pittsburgh. The houses in the high crime areas are almost free. Nobody wants to live there and many of the homes are empty. I suggest you try visiting the area before you speak about it.

[user_id]

Originally Posted by HappyTexan

Ha..you won't find a "decent" home in Austin Texas "within the major city" for under $400K.

Central Austin is expensive, but you can find houses much below $400k in Austin.

But regardless, who cares? We are talking about the mid-west. There are areas of Texas that are dirt cheap too. The point is to look at wages in relation to the local cost of living.

[user_id]

Originally Posted by Randomdude

Blah blah blah...

When people start to do little but say "You don't know anything" and pretend to know about the other person, there is little point in debating. The whining about Walmart is uninteresting and irrelevant, I don't even know why I even got involved. You say a lot of things, but demonstrate nothing. You believe things without evidence, instead "you'll look for it when you have time". You want to believe what you want to believe.

I will respond to one economic issue raised, namely involving Say's law. Again, I said that Say's law in a sense can be used to show that "supply creates its own demand", fact that is what Keynes said about it. But I suppose he did not understand it! Say's law is:

"A product is no sooner created, than it, from that instant, affords a market for other products to the full extent of its own value."

Anyhow, the comment you made is with much controversy in economics. As to your example, which you thin is "simple logic". Well, its not so simple at all (as is usually the case with economics). What you are doing is looking at one variable while fixing many others, despite the fact that many of these other variables are related to the one being manipulated. Many things could happen with the introduction of a 11th accountant, it depends on a variety of factors. Its possible that the introduction of the 11th accountant lowers prices for services yet increases everyones profit as the lower prices could create more demand. Demand is never fixed, demand among other thing varies with price.

Originally Posted by Randomdude

I hope you never find yourself out of work and unemployable. I would roll down my window, and spit on your "work for food" sign.

I don't get it, what does this have to do with anything? You act like a company increasing their profit is a bad thing, why? That is the point of business, your beef is with Capitalism. Cuba may be more to your liking.

If I was "out of work" I would not be staying in the street with a sign on it, I would offer my services for less than others and work.

[maf763]

Timex . . . takes a lickin' but keeps on tickin'

[Randomdude]

Originally Posted by user_id

I'm not claiming that every single house listed for $60k is decent, rather that you can pretty easily find a decent house for $60k even within the major cities. The stuff outside of the city is cheaper and factories are almost always outside of the cities. I've never lived in Indianapolis, but in Columbus and Pittsburgh case I'd say around 25% of the listings in the $60k are of houses are decent. But these are larger cities and they have some degree of crime no matter where you live in them.

Indianapolis is one of the most dangerous inner cities in the US United States cities by crime rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (wikepedia quoting the FBI).

About 75% of the housing you find inside the beltway is in horrid areas, and the few enclaves that are fairly safe are in the the 100k area.

Now, I will give you that Indianapolis is still relatively cheap. You can get in to a posh suburb with crime rates a fraction of the national average for the low 100ks, but it is certainly out of the reach of $12 an hour.

[Randomdude]

Originally Posted by user_id

"A product is no sooner created, than it, from that instant, affords a market for other products to the full extent of its own value."

It does afford a "market" it does not how ever guarantee an exchange, which means it doesnt create demand. It simply creates a market in which it can be exchanged for something else of equivalent value.

Originally Posted by user_id

Many things could happen with the introduction of a 11th accountant, it depends on a variety of factors. Its possible that the introduction of the 11th accountant lowers prices for services yet increases everyones profit as the lower prices could create more demand. Demand is never fixed, demand among other thing varies with price.

Demand varies to a point. However, even if services were given away, demand would still end at a point. At some level, every person who needs something would be satisfied. Just as my example explained, if there were only 10 businesses in existance, a max of 10 clients could be shared amongst all accounting firms. This is independent of prices.

Yeah, if there were 16 businesses, and only 10 demanded services at the current market level, but 16 needed services, then there is an unserved market.

Originally Posted by user_id

I don't get it, what does this have to do with anything? You act like a company increasing their profit is a bad thing, why? That is the point of business, your beef is with Capitalism. Cuba may be more to your liking.

The argument against capitalism is seperate from the argument here. My argument is that it is false that a side effect of outsourcing was lower prices. It has nothing to do with my opinion of capitalism.

Originally Posted by user_id

If I was "out of work" I would not be staying in the street with a sign on it, I would offer my services for less than others and work.

What if you couldnt offer your services for less?

[user_id]

Originally Posted by Randomdude

Indianapolis is one of the most dangerous inner cities in the US.....

If someone is going to live in a high crime city that is obviously something they are going to have to deal with, so the question is more can you get a decent house in Indianapolis standards for $60k. I just picked the big cities because everyone is familiar with them. The factories are rarely in the big cities.

[user_id]

Originally Posted by Randomdude

It does afford a "market" it does not how ever guarantee an exchange, which means it doesnt create demand.

Saying "X is wrong" is not an argument. This stuff is debated all the time and its wrapped in a lot of theory. There are no facts here, no sure why you don't get that.

Originally Posted by Randomdude

Demand varies to a point. However, even if services were given away, demand would still end at a point.

The point is that your example is not "simple" at all, a variety of things can happen. It depends on a variety of market conditions. Due to increases in productivity, population, etc there are no hard limits in demand.

Originally Posted by Randomdude

My argument is that it is false that a side effect of outsourcing was lower prices. It has nothing to do with my opinion of capitalism.

Your whining about corporate profits and Walmart is a beef with capitalism.

Regardless, you have not given a single argument. When asked for evidence for the levi's case you said you would look later. But why do you have a view when you don't have supporting data? Because you believe what you want to believe to fit your fancy.

Now, I would love to see an actual demonstration that outsourcing has not lowered prices. So far you've merely stated your view.

Originally Posted by Randomdude

What if you couldnt offer your services for less?

The only way this could occur is if wages were $0. Nothing stops someone from going out and doing something for cheap. The wage may be horrible, but it beats begging with a sign.

[HappyTexan]

user_id, I think you live in a perfect dream world where anything is possible and there is no down side of any theory.

Your textbook theory of competition and global trade don't pan out in the real world.

Your posts remind me of another user that got banned..Humanoid. That poster spent his time crushing everyone's posts with his perfect textbook theory too.

I'm done replying to any of your posts.