Low skill jobs pay less every year (adjusted to inflation) (bankruptcy, credit)

[Randomdude]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

I understand that the rich vs. poor gap has been widening. But maybe that is because "the poor" don't take the time to learn how to improve their lives. They continue living pay check to pay check and do not buy things that make them money. Rather, they buy things that cost them money.

There is not endless room at the top, and its even harder to get ahead when all access to higher income brackets is owned by a capitalist.

[wheelsup]

So I guess the Government should just give all of us poor and middle class workers a well paying job, huh?

[Randomdude]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

So I guess the Government should just give all of us poor and middle class workers a well paying job, huh?

No, not the government, but thats a different discussion going in to communism.

If capitalism is assumed, government must be employed as an agent to make work pay, and to prevent the capitalist class from becoming synonymous with the ruling party. The US form of capitalism has done a terrible job of both. The wealthy are almost exclusively the ruling party, and those of the middle class or poor classes have little chance of being elected to government. As for economics, the government has done nothing more but create a bunch of entitlement programs that have kept the poor dependent on them, rather then dependent on living wage work.

The poor have little motivation to "better themselves" because "bettering themselves" is extremely costly, and provides no guarantee of gainful employment. Its hard to become motivated about training or education, when you see people with bachelors degrees and years of experience working at Home Depot, and you must assume the great debt for this risk.

[wheelsup]

One could argue that those of us in the poor or middle class really aren't fit to run the Government. I don't want some C average college dropout as the Governor of my state. I want someone who was successful in business.

Bettering yourself is not costly. Highschool is free and for the poor college is practically free. For the middle class there are numerous avenues of education from community college, then transfer to a state school that will reduce the cost of your degree.

I understand what you are saying, but I'm not sure the alternative of take from the rich and give to the poor is the solution.

[Randomdude]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

One could argue that those of us in the poor or middle class really aren't fit to run the Government. I don't want some C average college dropout as the Governor of my state. I want someone who was successful in business.

Because they have, historically, done such a tremendous job......

However, one thing can be certain, the rich care nothing of the poor, and have no clue on how to better their plight.

Originally Posted by wheelsup

Bettering yourself is not costly. Highschool is free

High School will get you no better of a job then an eighth grade education.

Originally Posted by wheelsup

and for the poor college is practically free.

Only for the poorest of poor.

Originally Posted by wheelsup

For the middle class there are numerous avenues of education from community college, then transfer to a state school that will reduce the cost of your degree.

Yet it still costs over 20k when all is said and done, and is rising almost as fast as healthcare. Pretty big investment to end up making $10 an hour.

Originally Posted by wheelsup

I understand what you are saying, but I'm not sure the alternative of take from the rich and give to the poor is the solution.

No, my solution would be to force the rich to pay the poor for a higher percent of their labor value. Dont get me wrong, Im not an advocate of hand outs at all. Im completely opposed to most entitlement programs.

[wheelsup]

If you raise wages inflation will follow. They will be no better off than where they were before. And probably worse off as even more jobs will be offshored to India.

$20k for a college education? That really depends on your degree. The community school I once worked for charged $35/hr per credit hour. For 60 credit hours you're looking at around $2000. Over 2 years you're talking $1000/year for schooling plus maybe a couple hundred for books. Certainly cheap enough.

I'm not sure what state schools cost but they are certainly still cheap enough these days. Take your AA degree, transfer into a state school (maybe do this) and save a bundle.

IIRC you went to school to become an accountant, correct? Please don't take offense but the majority of accountants graduate and find well paying jobs, certainly in the $20/hr range and up. You might have other reasons why you could only find a job making $10/hr.

I paid around $80k total for my education and stated at around $7.50/hr my first year. At the peak before my pay cut I was around $35-$40/hr, that was 5 years after graduating. I'm glad I invested that $80k or I'd be out working hard labor for a lot less pay and less time off, I now average 15-16 days off a month.

[Randomdude]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

If you raise wages inflation will follow. They will be no better off than where they were before. And probably worse off as even more jobs will be offshored to India.

$20k for a college education? That really depends on your degree. The community school I once worked for charged $35/hr per credit hour. For 60 credit hours you're looking at around $2000. Over 2 years you're talking $1000/year for schooling plus maybe a couple hundred for books. Certainly cheap enough.

A couple hundred for books? Some books are over $200 by themselves. Three years ago, it took over $1000 with books, for 6 credit hours at my in state community college. College costs have went up since then.

I'm not sure what state schools cost but they are certainly still cheap enough these days. Take your AA degree, transfer into a state school (maybe do this) and save a bundle.

Originally Posted by wheelsup

IIRC you went to school to become an accountant, correct? Please don't take offense but the majority of accountants graduate and find well paying jobs, certainly in the $20/hr range and up. You might have other reasons why you could only find a job making $10/hr.

Yeah, I live in Hampton Roads, Va. It takes you a CPA and 5+ years of experience to crack $20 an hour.

Originally Posted by wheelsup

I paid around $80k total for my education and stated at around $7.50/hr my first year. At the peak before my pay cut I was around $35-$40/hr, that was 5 years after graduating. I'm glad I invested that $80k or I'd be out working hard labor for a lot less pay and less time off, I now average 15-16 days off a month.

Lucky for me, my parents paid for my bachelors degree, or else, it would have been more profitable for me to have simply worked at a warehouse job I had in college ($11 to start, $13 after 90 days), with a bunch of near illiterates.

I would have made about 25k my first year, and 27 my second, as opposed to 11k and 25k my second. In my third year out of college I made about 30k and I would have made 27k AT LEAST at the warehouse, in my 4th year I made about 32k and in my 5th I made about 36k. Take 27k AT LEAST those two years,

I would have made, at the warehouse, at least, 133k and I would have had benefits after those 90 days.

Instead, I made 134, with no benefits for 3 of those years, and I would have had 20k+ in debt.

Nice. If I would have managed just a dollar raise in four years at the warehouse, I would have made more money doing a job a trained monkey could do then I would have with a bachelors degree, and I would have had benefits and no college debt.

[Enolihi]

What really makes better sense: A minimum wage earner should be able to afford housing. There should be more housing to accommodate his/her needs.

[wheelsup]

I hear ya. I came out of school with around $15k in student loan debt. Certainly manageable even @ $7.50/hr when I first graduated. Here's the thing, the more you work the better your pay will get and the better jobs you will have. The same warehouse worker will forever be moving pallets around. You don't have to stay in Norfolk. You can move and find CPA jobs even in this economy.

[Randomdude]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

I hear ya. I came out of school with around $15k in student loan debt. Certainly manageable even @ $7.50/hr when I first graduated. Here's the thing, the more you work the better your pay will get and the better jobs you will have. The same warehouse worker will forever be moving pallets around. You don't have to stay in Norfolk. You can move and find CPA jobs even in this economy.

I can move, and I plan to, however, that doesnt change the economic situation here, nor will it change the eventual fact that, at some point, the supply of accountants will far outstrip the demand, and it wont be just a regional or local issue.