Economy grows at best pace in 2 years (small business, free market, buy)

[ufcrules1]

Originally Posted by Icy Tea

Smoke and mirrors and creative accounting. Even when the Titanic was sinking part of it was rising.

Haha.. I never heard that line before. I agree with it, and the 2 posters above. You all are exactly right.

[cdcdguy]

Originally Posted by user_id

The price declines are only noticeable in some products like diary which is much cheaper than it was last year. The sales on most products are much more aggressive than they were last year though.

Groceries stores react first by offering sales, its only after months of this that they will start to drop the list price of something. Kroger stores have been pretty aggressive in dropping their prices though, they are trying to gain market share from Safeway, etc. Anyhow, some areas only have 1-2 companies running stores in their area and I'd imagine prices would come down slower in such areas. Here there are at least 10 different companies you could shop at within 10 miles or so, so the competition is rather aggressive.

This actually makes sense. I never thought of it as "lower food prices", but on some things this is true. Sales have been more aggressive. Good points.

[wanneroo]

Originally Posted by user_id

I suggest you find a new grocery store to shop at because food prices have been doing down. Gas is cheaper than it was much of last year.

Ummm... I shop at 4 different supermarkets.

Gas last fall was $1.80 now it's $2.80.

[Philip T]

And stand by for the "revised downward" numbers in about 3 to 6 months.

With the revised downward numbers and all, it would amuse me if they would send of their math guys out in a white lab coat and say . . . .

"we did not lie . . . we just forgot to carry the 1 . . . . "

[BankREO]

Originally Posted by user_id

I suggest you find a new grocery store to shop at because food prices have been doing down. Gas is cheaper than it was much of last year.

First off you are wrong about gas, just look at a historic average of prices in the U.S. like here, I took a 2 year chart for my example.

Second, food prices have gone up, what we have seen is heavy sales on many items but if you look at the non-sale price, it has gone up so when they stop the sales it will be at a new and higher price. Also if you look at the amount you get, many things are getting smaller in size and that is another way to keep "prices" the same and still give you less.

[HappyTexan]

Regarding food prices....

price remains the same but packaging changes - quantity gets smaller.
So price per unit actually went up. They lowered the units to maintain the price.
We now get "less" for the same price.

Next time you see that "New improved packaging" or "New convenient size" take a look at the quantity number. 16oz is now 13oz, 32 oz is now 30 oz, etc.
What you do see rising with no packaging change is because they can't do it. A dozen eggs is a dozen eggs.

Food Packaging Shrinks, Prices Stay the Same | Newsweek Business | Newsweek.com
Shoppers Beware: Products Shrink But Prices Stay the Same - AOL Money & Finance

[user_id]

Originally Posted by amirelez

This thing hasn't even got all the way warmed up yet. The stimulus was a good healthy dose of inflation. Don't believe the government lies.

What government lies? I'm looking at data, some of which is supplied by the government some by third parties. Its sort of hard to have inflation when there is massive credit destruction throughout the economy.

Originally Posted by amirelez

I don't know about you but I've been feeling the symptoms of inflation in the cost of things going up.

What is going up with the possible exception of health care? My monthly bills are around $200 less this year vs last. The only thing that went up was my health insurance, many other things went down. Including my food budget, housing costs, auto insurance, entertainment budget, etc.

Originally Posted by amirelez

During the dirty thirties the gnp grew a majority of the decade. GNP between 34 and 37 consecutively grew an average of over 8% per year but nobody said the depression was over, actually unemployment was rising as well.

The depression was two events, one that bottomed in the 1933 and another that bottomed in the 1938. If the government did not mess up and cut off stimulus in 1936~1937 the "depression" would have likely ended sooner. And unemployment did NOT raise between 1934 and 1937, rather the opposite. It went from around 23% in 1932~1933 to around 13% in 1936. It increased again during the 1937 recession, but quickly started to decline again in 1938.

Originally Posted by amirelez

Going deeper into debt to spend money on things that we don't need and can't afford isn't even close to real growth. We need to save our money and start sawing away on our trade deficit by producing things here again. We can't borrow and spend our way to prosperity.

Household debt is declining and the national savings rate is increasing, so what are you talking about? Government debt does not work in the same way as household debt and increasing government spending during a major recession is exactly what the government should be doing. It is a bit more problematic this time around as the government prior to the recession was deficit spending.

You are not going to correct the trade deficit by moving some low skill manufacturing to the US. Doing this will just reduce our standard of living. The trade deficit is the result of a strong dollar policy and currency manipulation by China.

[evilnewbie]

This story is so full of holes... say a stock that was worth $100 earns 3% which means it is 103.... THREE dollars... and then say the stock dropped down to $1 and earns 3%... that's three CENTS... Three dollars versus three cents? What does that have to do with this topic?

When you are in a deep and BAD recession and then saying it jumped up 3% compared to the BOTTOM and say it's all "good"... that's like saying 3 cents is comparable to 3 dollars... NOT...

They are STILL making people pay for checked-in luggage... gas prices are down... someone tell the airline industry...

[user_id]

Originally Posted by HappyTexan

Regarding food prices....

price remains the same but packaging changes - quantity gets smaller.
So price per unit actually went up. They lowered the units to maintain the price.
We now get "less" for the same price.

Next time you see that "New improved packaging" or "New convenient size" take a look at the quantity number. 16oz is now 13oz, 32 oz is now 30 oz, etc.
What you do see rising with no packaging change is because they can't do it. A dozen eggs is a dozen eggs.

Food Packaging Shrinks, Prices Stay the Same | Newsweek Business | Newsweek.com
Shoppers Beware: Products Shrink But Prices Stay the Same - AOL Money & Finance

ugh, are you serious? These are both over a year old! Last year some food prices were going up, they have been declining since about last summer though.

Here a dozen of eggs was $2.50 last year, now its around $1.60. Diary is dramatically cheaper too, Milk was around $4/gallon now its $2.00/gallon. Cheese at Costco is all around 30% than it was last year... So much is cheaper this year vs last.

[user_id]

Originally Posted by BankREO

First off you are wrong about gas, just look at a historic average of prices in the U.S. like here, I took a 2 year chart for my example.

This just gets crazier. Did you even look at the charts? I said that gas is cheaper now than it was much of last year and what do you know...the 2 year chart shows just that! Gas in 2008 was higher in around 10.5 months last year than compared to today's price (which is about as high as they've been all year), the average price in 2008 was much higher than the average this year.

Originally Posted by BankREO

Second, food prices have gone up, what we have seen is heavy sales on many items but if you look at the non-sale price, it has gone up so when they stop the sales it will be at a new and higher price.

The food portion of CPI is down vs last year, the 12-month average is negative. Grocery stores have complex pricing models, they also first put things on sale before they will even think about changing the list price. Walking around a grocery store and adding up list prices tells you NOTHING, they often mark-up the list price to make the sale price look that much better.