U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics > Business
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
 
Old 11-27-2012, 12:58 PM
 
5,092 posts, read 9,610,205 times
Reputation: 3941

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE View Post
My numbers on who pays the taxes come from the IRS statistics. Here is an article from Robert Longley on the 2002 Tax numbers.
I guess you have tracked that Personal Income Taxes are not most of the Tax Bill?

So jumping to this chart, which claims "Total Tax" bill . . .

Quote:

I found for the 2011 total tax bill:
You follow that 29% is the claimed Tax Rate for the top 1%?

Not that they pay 29% of all taxes?

But overall this chart is a bit odd, as it does not clearly account for Corporate Taxes, nor Property and Sales Taxes -- which are the mainstay of most states and communities.

If you would like we can keep digging deeper, but I think we likely to find the 1% needs US far more than we need them.
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-28-2012, 08:20 AM
 
Location: Living on the Coast in Oxnard CA
15,372 posts, read 25,611,927 times
Reputation: 19654
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
I guess you have tracked that Personal Income Taxes are not most of the Tax Bill?

So jumping to this chart, which claims "Total Tax" bill . . .



You follow that 29% is the claimed Tax Rate for the top 1%?

Not that they pay 29% of all taxes?

But overall this chart is a bit odd, as it does not clearly account for Corporate Taxes, nor Property and Sales Taxes -- which are the mainstay of most states and communities.

If you would like we can keep digging deeper, but I think we likely to find the 1% needs US far more than we need them.
The top tax rate in the nation is 35%. What I am telling you is that the top 1% paid 29% of the taxes that were collected for the IRS for the year that I referenced. Here is a chart for 2008 and it shows an even higher amount that the 1% paid in taxes:

Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-28-2012, 02:31 PM
 
1,567 posts, read 2,694,283 times
Reputation: 1262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butterfly4u View Post
Zenstyle,
You are a maker.
The takers are the big Corporations that buy off our politicans and own
our COngress so they can write the tax law to benefit them.
That is why a near billionaire, such as Mitt ROmney, paid only 14 percent
in Federal Taxes, and that is after he raised his rate by forfitting some
deductions, but that is only on the one return he disclosed.
Real rich people and Corporations don't pay hardly anything at all,
so don't you worry about wether you are a maker or a taker at all.
You just keep doing what you are doing and make lots of money.
You sound like you enjoy your job, and that is 90 percent of it.

lol romney also pays more taxes in one year than most of use will make in our lives even if he does find loop holes to only pay 14 pct
your statements are rediculous
rich people pay almost all the taxes in this country
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-28-2012, 02:33 PM
 
1,567 posts, read 2,694,283 times
Reputation: 1262
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE View Post
My numbers on who pays the taxes come from the IRS statistics. Here is an article from Robert Longley on the 2002 Tax numbers.

Who Pays the Most Income Tax?

I found for the 2011 total tax bill:



Here is another cool story I found:

Taxes: Who Pays? | Free Enterprise

be careful you might confuse him with facts he isn't a big fan of them
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-28-2012, 02:38 PM
 
1,567 posts, read 2,694,283 times
Reputation: 1262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
I guess you have tracked that Personal Income Taxes are not most of the Tax Bill?

So jumping to this chart, which claims "Total Tax" bill . . .



You follow that 29% is the claimed Tax Rate for the top 1%?

Not that they pay 29% of all taxes?

But overall this chart is a bit odd, as it does not clearly account for Corporate Taxes, nor Property and Sales Taxes -- which are the mainstay of most states and communities.

If you would like we can keep digging deeper, but I think we likely to find the 1% needs US far more than we need them.
you live in fantasy land
if the 1% (granted there are some greedy unethical scumbags in this group, same as in the 99%- the the amount of hatred and jealosy directed towards them on a whole is pathetic and disgusting) all left this country almost everyone left in this country would be completely and utterly screwed

where the hell do you think jobs would come from? who do you think would pay the taxes?

so many people in this country pay little to no taxes and even if they do pay them get far more in govt benefits than they pay in taxes. even something as simple as the average couple having 2 kids means at bare minimum they will get tax credits for each kid and it will cost the govt 5-10k a year to send each kid to school unless they pay to send them to private school out of their own pocket.

if those people all left this country they would be fine. lets take it a step further and have the top 50% of the people in this country leave- you're gonna say the bottom 50 % dont need them? lol they will be out stabbing each other in the street for food within 2 days
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-28-2012, 02:49 PM
 
Location: NJ
22,744 posts, read 28,605,773 times
Reputation: 14642
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenstyle View Post
. We vote "yes" on all school bond issues and millages.
thats not a good thing.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-28-2012, 10:22 PM
 
5,092 posts, read 9,610,205 times
Reputation: 3941
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE View Post
The top tax rate in the nation is 35%.
But it is graduated to get there. So you follow that is like what is called an asymptote? That is the max number on the upper portion of the upper portion (taxable) income. But it not likely that anyone fully reaches it as overall tax rate -- for that taxed event.

Quote:

What I am telling you is that the top 1% paid 29% of the taxes that were collected for the IRS for the year that I referenced.
I follow that you have told me three different things. Not that I think you are trying to be deceptive, at all.

It just makes me think you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Nothing harsh in that. Really nothing at all. It is why I offered that we should deeper into this.

But let's look at what you just claimed "Top 1% paid 29% of the taxes collected for the IRS . . ." Go back and look again. Does not that column say "Rate?" And it is supposed to (maybe somehow?) represent ALL taxes, including State and Local -- which the IRS does not even touch?

You are confusing "rate" with percentage of overall taxes paid. If you do not believe me, add up that column of tax rates on the right side -- where you pulled the 29% number from -- and you will see that it adds up 237 (%?). Do you think that all the taxes paid add up to 237% of the taxes paid? You follow the error, right?

Do you understand why I think you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about?

Quote:

Here is a chart for 2008 and it shows an even higher amount that the 1% paid in taxes:
That chart is goofier yet. It has no basis shown for any of its little boxes and colors.

Do you understand this is why I am asking if you want to dig through the Real Numbers?
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-28-2012, 10:35 PM
 
5,092 posts, read 9,610,205 times
Reputation: 3941
Quote:
Originally Posted by bxlefty23 View Post
you live in fantasy land
if the 1% (granted there are some greedy unethical scumbags in this group, same as in the 99%- the the amount of hatred and jealosy directed towards them on a whole is pathetic and disgusting) all left this country almost everyone left in this country would be completely and utterly screwed
Hardly. All the buildings, cropland, industry, homes, utilities, schools, hospitals (on and on and on) and the skilled people who operate them would ALL still be here.

Just absent the overhead and interest cost that the 1% burdens them with. No loss, all gain. Sweet offer, overall.

Quote:
where the hell do you think jobs would come from? who do you think would pay the taxes?
Jobs do not come from the 1%. Other than maybe doing their lawns and cleaning their toilets. But that would hardly be missed.

As far as who would pay taxes . . . we would likely have the same cast who pay now, along with some balanced trade tariffs returned lowering the existing tax rates, and lifting overall wages and employment.

Without having to support the King, the peasants do fine.

Quote:
so many people in this country pay little to no taxes and even if they do pay them get far more in govt benefits than they pay in taxes. even something as simple as the average couple having 2 kids means at bare minimum they will get tax credits for each kid and it will cost the govt 5-10k a year to send each kid to school unless they pay to send them to private school out of their own pocket.
So now in your make-believe fantasy world Property Taxes (all local) do not pay for Public Schools?

Do you really expect me to take your babble seriously, or what?

Quote:
if those people all left this country they would be fine. lets take it a step further and have the top 50% of the people in this country leave- you're gonna say the bottom 50 % dont need them? lol they will be out stabbing each other in the street for food within 2 days
No one is claiming that the top 50% are essentially freeloaders. Just the real upper end.

But I do understand why you had to project your argument into the absurd. For it to even make sense to you?
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-28-2012, 11:04 PM
 
10,874 posts, read 41,210,243 times
Reputation: 14020
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post

Jobs do not come from the 1%. Other than maybe doing their lawns and cleaning their toilets. But that would hardly be missed.
C'mon, Philip T ...

even the Bill Gates and Warren Buffets don't put their money under a mattress and have it mulitply while they sleep ...

Their money is invested in businesses which employ people; ie, those are jobs that are worked by many thousands. And they're just two of the 1%.

And of those many thousands of jobs, I personally know at least a hundred who work in companies for those two guys alone that have become multi-millionaires that can't get a return on their saved earnings without investing it into stocks in companies which do something with that money: they create work product by employing people. That's even more jobs created by investment capital.

You can have all the people you want in service sector jobs demanding goods, services, food, and entertainment ... who don't make a lot of money, but use their discretionary dollars to purchase much beyond their essential needs of survival. All of those goods and services come from people who are employed in companies which require working capital investment. Even a small time farmer needs a capital investment to create his product and bring it to market ....

I recall that you're connected with the wind power industry. How are products brought to market there? Does somebody just wave a certificate of deposit at the raw materials and the next thing you know there are turbines and generators sitting in a neat pile waiting to be delivered and installed? (oops, there's a whole chain more of employed people that work for the corporations owned by investor dollars) or is there an entire chain of events from engineering to sales to raw goods to manufactured items to installers that all takes place because there's invested capital put to work? and who delivers those goods to the job site? the turbines don't walk to them, IIRC. They get loaded onto various means of commercial transport which employ thousands of people working for companies with invested capital, delivered to the job site, and then other workers do the installation ... from site prep to bases to infrastructure to deliver the power ultimately produced to the functional point of use.

Complain all you want about how exceptional wealth got accumulated into the hands of relatively few, say a Carnegie. All those steel workers made a good living working for "the man", and his net profit per worker per day was minimal. It was by having a large operation that the economy of scale yielded profits per each worker and ultimately a fortune for Carnegie. But those workers wouldn't have had a steel mill to work in if somebody hadn't put the business concept together, employed the engineers and architects and other professionals to design and then construct the facilities ... and they wouldn't have had a market for their product if other companies using invested capital hadn't needed railroads and buildings and consumer goods ....
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-30-2012, 05:04 PM
 
3,780 posts, read 7,175,650 times
Reputation: 4134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
That chart is goofier yet. It has no basis shown for any of its little boxes and colors.

Do you understand this is why I am asking if you want to dig through the Real Numbers?
Okay, Philip T: teach us.

What percent of the personal income tax dollars received by the government are paid by the 1%?
What percent by percents 2-5?
6-10?
etc.

If you know that the chart is wrong, show us the Real Numbers. I'd like to see them.
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics > Business
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top