Toyota North America HQ Leaving CA (investing, average, consultants, country)

[RaymondChandlerLives]

[quote=Johnhw2;34599219]

Originally Posted by RaymondChandlerLives

You would think Texas blows California away in population with all the talk going on here.

Facts.

California = more single family homes than Texas.

California SFHs = more than double the value of those found in Texas.

More housing will not make California affordable, certainly not as affordable as Texas. The Gods of supply and demand have spoken.[/quota]


Wow over priced homes are sure something to be proud of, those Toyota transplants to Texas will be able to afford a house that fits their family size. Those high prices keep the riff raff out for sure.. congratulations. How does it work out for a young family trying to buy into that market? Could that be one of the reasons Toyota is leaving you.

You guys win both the high real estate cost and high taxes battle, congratulations.

Nissan thought the same thing when they relocated in 2005. Dude, you can buy a house for cheap where we're moving!

68% of their workforce quit and stayed in SoCal.

[Gurbie]

Originally Posted by TrueDat

You're using Dallas and Plano interchangeably. Fair enough, most of North Texas is conservative. But, just as OC shouldn't be confused with LA, Dallas County does not fit Plano's statistics. Similarly, Travis County (Austin) isn't interchangeable with the bright red counties around it. Obama carried Dallas by a wide margin. Houston is the largest city in America with an openly gay mayor, and she was re-elected with little controversy. (And, interestingly, the current mayor of Plano is Haitian-American who won by a large margin, something a lot of people wouldn't expect from some place like Collin County.)

Things aren't always so starkly black and white -- or red and blue -- as some try to portray.

http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/s...&off=0&elect=0

Dallas Consumer Reviews | A Little Blue County In a Big Red State | Epinions.com

ETA: There are people who work in Collin or Tarrant (Fort Worth) or some other surrounding county and choose to live in Dallas because it's less conservative. And it's a reverse commute so it's not quite as bad as it might seem. I doubt if many Toyota employees will do that (schools being the big impetus to live in Plano) but it is an option, especially for younger, single people. Too often, outsiders slam Dallas because all they know is the airport, the tollway, and suburbs like Plano or Frisco. Dallas is a much more diverse city than people give it credit for.

The Texas Triangle (DFW-Houston-SA, with Austin on the western leg) has 14 million people. It's expected to grow to 23 million within the next 40 years.

Right now, Texas is divided urban/rural population-wise, almost 50-50. But the cities' growth will far outstrip that of the smaller towns and counties.

And Texas politics will become more liberal as the state becomes more urban.

[18Montclair]

[quote=RaymondChandlerLives;34599363]

Originally Posted by Johnhw2

Nissan thought the same thing when they relocated in 2005. Dude, you can buy a house for cheap where we're moving!

68% of their workforce quit and stayed in SoCal.

Seriously, Id take the severance package and stay.

Just like China, Texas lacks the innovation to create because while poor and lower middle class people flock there in droves, the creative class is NOT.

That most highly desired and coveted class of worker continues to gravitate to and between places like LA, NY and SF.

I dont see how TX can even compete in that sense.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by PedroMartinez

Very, very, very few people could enjoy the lifestyle of living on a boat with probably 240 sq feet of living space. Practically no family could enjoy that lifestyle. Yes, there are the outliers, but not many.

If that works for you, that is awesome, but you're definitely going to be the exception.

The point is that many people could afford a much better lifestyle (if your lifestyle is built around your home) in urban or suburban Texas than urban or suburban California.

Now, if your lifestyle revolves around something like hiking and climbing, as an example of many, you probably would be better off in California over Texas. However, I'd argue that more people's, especially middle class families, lifestyles revolve around their homes and home amenities, even if they don't realize it.

Due to my home being on the water and my "free time" going toward wakesurfing and jet skiing, most of my friends also live on the water with the same hobbies. Only one of them could possibly afford this same lifestyle in California, the others, like myself, could never afford it.

So, in California, I could live with a pretty terrain and better weather; however, would that be worth the trade-off from yesterday after work. Yesterday, I picked up my daughter from aftercare, went home and changed cloths, went into the backyard to lower a ski in the water to take my daughter onto the lake. When we got back to the house, we jumped into the hot tub for a while until my wife and son got home. To me, this tops the lifestyle I'd have in California, and I'd guess many people would agree. In Texas this is a lifestyle that a middle class person can actually afford.

So, when I hear, "Yeah, but you'd have to live in Texas", my reply is, "For many people, that would be an improvement." Notice, I said "many" and not "most" or "all".

Friend Pedro. As I said, nice to hear you like your life. And everything you write is true. Very few people could enjoy living the way I do. And this makes interesting conversation for me.

Because, how many people could buy your location / situation in Texas? What will happen to the values when all the suitable coastline and other nice areas have been developed following Toyota and other businesses expanding or moving to Texas? Texas is experiencing a lot of growth. What will happen when the nicest parts fill up? Will the state allow more and more high density development? Will Texas adopt more and stricter regulations to protect lifestyle and health of its citizens? Etc.

Ours is a finite world. Unlimited growth has problems with finite space and resources. Maybe, just maybe, our culture is flawed in promoting such a dream as you define as a middle class benchmark?

Meanwhile, I am enjoying my day as much as you are. And I do it using about .008 the space you do, without privatizing beautiful but limited resources, at probably - oh guessing here - maybe 1/20 or less of your costs. And of course, way less energy and water.

By the way, yes, I did raise my two boys on boats. They're grown now and one is out on his own boat as we write. And I have known many other families afloat over the years. Do I think everyone should live on boats? Certainly not! But maybe, just maybe what 99% of our culture competes for is completely unrealistic and damaging.

[Alpha_Dog]

Originally Posted by TrueDat

You're using Dallas and Plano interchangeably. Fair enough, most of North Texas is conservative. But, just as OC shouldn't be confused with LA, Dallas County does not fit Plano's statistics. Similarly, Travis County (Austin) isn't interchangeable with the bright red counties around it. Obama carried Dallas by a wide margin. Houston is the largest city in America with an openly gay mayor, and she was re-elected with little controversy. (And, interestingly, the current mayor of Plano is Haitian-American who won by a large margin, something a lot of people wouldn't expect from some place like Collin County.)

Things aren't always so starkly black and white -- or red and blue -- as some try to portray.

http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/s...&off=0&elect=0

Dallas Consumer Reviews | A Little Blue County In a Big Red State | Epinions.com

This isn't about Austin (where I previously lived) or Harris county in Houston. Obama only carried Dallas county because it's predominantly made up of minority voters. Almost two-thirds of Dallas County residents are either Black or Hispanic. Obama lost Texas whites by a 73-26 margin. Going forward Republicans have probably maximized their support among white Texans after Perry's campaign debacle, Ted Cruz's wide-spread unpopularity outside of the bible-belt, growing Hispanic population, and many younger transplants moving into the area from both coasts and the upper Midwest, changing the current voter dynamics.

Collin county where Toyota's HQ is relocating voted 65% for Romney in the 2012 election...that's a VERY high number for the GOP considering how diverse this county is. Make no mistake Collin county is located in the Bible Belt, it's extremely religious, and one of the most socially conservative areas of the country. Collin County's Social conservative base along with the areas large Southern Baptist community have always maintained a strong influence in local politics, including funding the county's many right wing political causes. This is quite different from the fiscally conservative, socially moderate, low-tax, low regulation attitude and mind-set most SoCal coastal Republican voters have.


http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/state.php?fips=48

[ashpelham]

My question is where will middle class folks work one day? Are we going to all be moving every few years to where the manufacturing jobs go to? This says nothing of how hard it probably was to begin with to be hired at that Toyota plant in Torrance, and how many thousands will apply for the jobs at Toyota in Texas that are not first offered to people from Torrance.

Might as well just go ahead and send it all to China. Thats what big business wants anyway: rank and file work for free or Chinese wages, upper 5% of management live at the beach in California.

[nslander]

Originally Posted by TVC15

Typically response from those who refuse to acknowledge the issues in this state.

An appropriate response to an ingrate who demands others to "fix your ****ed up state" while you live here. You know nothing about me other than what I post here, but that doesn,t stop you from lazily throwing out asinine generalizations.

[Johnhw2]

[quote=18Montclair;34599604]

Originally Posted by RaymondChandlerLives

Seriously, Id take the severance package and stay.

Just like China, Texas lacks the innovation to create because while poor and lower middle class people flock there in droves, the creative class is NOT.

That most highly desired and coveted class of worker continues to gravitate to and between places like LA, NY and SF.

I dont see how TX can even compete in that sense.

You don't see or hear much so nothing you say registers or touches reality.

Creative, innovative people are curious, inquisitive and realize they do not know it all. You are none of those. If you are representative of what you claim Ca is full of ......

Enjoy your closed minded life in Ca where you think life is perfect.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by ExeterMedia

Are you going to have a serious conversation or act like a child? Let's talk about reality here instead of made up companies like "belching factories" or "fart in can factories", try to be mature and adult when looking at this question.

Reality:
California is going to chase Siracha out of the state into Texas because of "spicy smells" which have an effect on a total of about 80-100 houses. Is it worth it to potentially lose a $100,000,000 company that provides hundreds of lower-middle class jobs to residents in SoCal just so "Irwindale" residents who live around the factory don't have to smell spicy chili? Have you been to Irwindale? I think about 1,000 people live in the city total. It's basically a huge rock quarry, some industrial plants, and the Siracha plant.

Where does it stop? What if KFC chicken smell is offensive to 10 people in a neighborhood. Should we set a precedent that companies can be shutdown simply because of food smells that certain people find offensive?

The liberal eco-NIMBY hipsters who got priced out of San Francisco or West LA will complain all day about not having a job, and a poor economy, but they'll be the first to shutdown a factory that employs over a hundred people because they don't like the smell of chili. F*** those guys. I hope they get priced out of California and have to move to Arizona.

Delightful post! As usual! And very mature accusing others of acting like children and telling people to "F*** those guys".

But most of all, how very gracious to point out that where you live, as a kept housewife in the upper crusted bastion of Dana Point, is *obviously* immune to being considered a candidate for ""belching" or "fart in a can" factories. None of that horrid "liberal eco-NIMBYism" for Dana Point! Who would think?! The very idea that such as you are would have to rub shoulders with "spicy smells"! "Belching", "fartin", "spicy-smellin" is for the riff-raff. The people of Irwindale are SO not worthy of the protections of Dana Point!

Oh, and did I mention, neat that you didn't, once again, frame your rant as a liberal condemnation? Oh wait. You did. Again.

[TVC15]

NFIB in California | National Federation of Independent Business