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Old 08-09-2017, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Here
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Don't remember the name of the firm, but it was on the news that employees can have a 'chip' inserted (I think in their hand) and use that instead of an ID card to enter the building; plus they could wave their hand in front of the coin slot on the vending machine to purchase items. At this point, the chip was optional.

Maybe in the future none of us will be using credit cards or cash; maybe we'll all have a chip inserted (maybe even at birth?) and that chip will store all of our personal information. You'd just swipe your hand or finger across a 'reader' on a computer/phone, etc., to conduct business or add in more personal information. Maybe even the same at a medical facility and anywhere else our information is required.
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Old 08-09-2017, 03:10 PM
 
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I haven't used cash for at least a dozen years. It annoys the panhandlers, though.
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Old 08-09-2017, 07:01 PM
 
Location: World
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PacoMartin View Post
Federal statutes do not require that someone who is not a pre-existing creditor must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. Private businesses may formulate their own policies on whether to accept cash unless state law requires otherwise.

Accepting banknotes in payment involves some risk and bother to the restaurant owner. Normally, in the USA they are willing to take that risk as it may alienate some of their customers. But in other countries, business owners find that they can live with alienating some customers so they don't have to deal in cash.

Apartment owners generally will not take cash. Stores in Denmark are petitioning the government to allow them to remove cash registers so that paying via cash is not an option.

Sweden has reduced their cash in circulation by more than 50% since the peak in 2007. All six denominations of banknotes in Sweden are worth about US$540 per capita. In comparison in the US we are circulating roughly $540 per capita in just the $20 denomination.
Sweden is one of those countries which is in European Union but outside Exchange Rate Mechanism for their currency Swedish Krona. Denmark is also in European Union with their currecy Danish Krone tied to Euro. Both nations thru Referendum have resisted to rein in Euro as their currency but they desperately wish to remain a part of European Union.
Its a wild guess but they think that they will have more control over their survival to maintain status quo with less cash floating around even if it hurt their economy.
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Old 08-09-2017, 07:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robr2 View Post
Actually, there is no federal statute requiring a business to accept currency. Businesses are free to decide if they want to accept currency unless there is a state law requiring it.

See: https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm
This is all part of the New World Order cashless society so everything we buy is tracked. The ultimate goal is to have everyone microchipped. That way it will be more "convenient" than having to pull out your credit card.
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Old 08-09-2017, 07:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasLawyer2000 View Post
I'm already cashless for the most part and often refuse to do business with retailers that do not accept credit cards. So this has little impact on me.
Oh, but it will. Just give it time.
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Old 08-09-2017, 10:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
Oh, but it will. Just give it time.
Care to provide some meaningful insight on your hypothesis?
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Old 08-10-2017, 02:20 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PacoMartin View Post
I have heard that sentiment expressed very often, but there doesn't seem to be any evidence in the entire first world (other than Sweden) that government's are actually removing cash.

The Euro zone more or less stopped increasing cash by much and is not introducing a new 500 Euro banknote. Britain is seriously talking about removing the 50 British pound note. Canada stopped producing the CAD$1000 banknote in 2000. But these efforts are relatively minor.

Only Sweden has cut it's circulation of cash by more than 50%. Sweden is a country of 10 million people which is part of the EU but has chosen not to enter the Euro Zone. They may adopt a crypto currency next year, but that decision is being debated.

You have to remember that cash is a source of great profit to TPTB. The profit is called seignorage and it refers to the fact that people treat secure paper like it has great value Governments profit greatly from that fact. The Swedish Central Bank is having a budget crisis now that half of the cash is gone.
Being a Swede, this has become a concern of mine.
I used to not care and only used debit/credit cards or app-payments. But maybe I've become paranoid, because I do not like that the gov't somehow wants this kind of control on me. What's the reason?

Sure it makes it somewhat harder to commit illegal transactions, but it also leads to other problems for the regular Joe.
An older lady was not allowed to deposit her savings to her bank account because she had no proof of where the money came from. It was like $10k.
If you withdraw $1k and up from your own account, the bank ask you what you're doing with it. To me, it's not their business.

We, the people, are losing more and more of our privacy and control of our gov't. And it's a worry since gov't are not good for anything really...

So I'm going back to cash.
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Old 08-10-2017, 04:41 AM
 
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Originally Posted by seww6 View Post
Being a Swede, this has become a concern of mine.
It's very rare for a Swede to express that sentiment, especially one that is not a senior citizen. Most of them simply say that cash is an ancient, disease spreading artifact that they are happy to see vanish.

Cash is not just a medium for transactions, but it is also a "store of value". The Riksbank is circulating 58 million 500kr (US$60) banknotes and only 3.5 million 1000kr banknotes (US$120) for a population of ten million. It is very common for people in the first world to keep the equivalent of a few hundred dollars at home for "emergencies" in case something happens so it is difficult to get at their bank money. That is nearly impossible in Sweden as there is simply not that many banknotes in circulation.

The 3.5 million 1000kr banknotes circulating in Sweden contrasts with 17.0 million in Norway and 34.8 million in Denmark for much smaller populations. As recently as 2012 Sweden was still circulating 21.4 million 1000kr banknotes.

In Europe only Britain is considering more extreme measures than Sweden, by eliminating the 50 banknote. Britain circulates about five 50 banknotes per capita while Sweden circulates about six 500kr banknotes per capita.

The Riksbank is holding meetings next year to debate introducing a crypto currency backed by the Riksbank (tentatively called e-krona). The bank has stated that it is meant to complement banknotes and not eliminate them. However, it is difficult to believe that the e-krona won't push banknotes even further into oblivion.
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Old 08-10-2017, 06:10 AM
 
99 posts, read 50,133 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PacoMartin View Post
It's very rare for a Swede to express that sentiment, especially one that is not a senior citizen. Most of them simply say that cash is an ancient, disease spreading artifact that they are happy to see vanish.

Cash is not just a medium for transactions, but it is also a "store of value". The Riksbank is circulating 58 million 500kr (US$60) banknotes and only 3.5 million 1000kr banknotes (US$120) for a population of ten million. It is very common for people in the first world to keep the equivalent of a few hundred dollars at home for "emergencies" in case something happens so it is difficult to get at their bank money. That is nearly impossible in Sweden as there is simply not that many banknotes in circulation.

The 3.5 million 1000kr banknotes circulating in Sweden contrasts with 17.0 million in Norway and 34.8 million in Denmark for much smaller populations. As recently as 2012 Sweden was still circulating 21.4 million 1000kr banknotes.

In Europe only Britain is considering more extreme measures than Sweden, by eliminating the 50 banknote. Britain circulates about five 50 banknotes per capita while Sweden circulates about six 500kr banknotes per capita.

The Riksbank is holding meetings next year to debate introducing a crypto currency backed by the Riksbank (tentatively called e-krona). The bank has stated that it is meant to complement banknotes and not eliminate them. However, it is difficult to believe that the e-krona won't push banknotes even further into oblivion.
Well, I'm not old, ~32-ish , but I'm getting concerned when the gov't is trying so hard to control our spending. It's more and more of a big brother problem than anything. And Sweden likes to be extreme when it comes to these things... Not a fan.

Seems like you're very well informed about Sweden, how come? PM and we'll leave this thread alone with that discussion.
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Old 08-10-2017, 11:25 AM
 
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Originally Posted by seww6 View Post
And Sweden likes to be extreme when it comes to these things... Not a fan.
In 1992 at the end of Swedish banking crisis, Sweden was circulating 8,529kr in banknotes and coins per capita, with 53.1% in 1000kr banknotes. At end of year exchange rate of 7.0500 SEK/USD that was equivalent to US$1,210. This was the last year that Sweden was circulating more cash than the USA.

By 2007, Sweden was circulating 12,494kr per capita in banknotes and coins, which was a peak value. At end of year exchange rate of 6.4136 SEK/USD that was equvalent to US$1,948.

As of 2017-07-31 Sweden is circulating 4,491kr in NEW banknotes per capita (assuming population of 10 million) and 432.7kr in valid coins. The bank has a small obligation left for old banknotes as they can still be turned in to commercial banks through the end of this month, and then to central bank with a fee through next year.

Not sure of exact statistics from Russia, but it is probably less than equivalent value in Russian rubles (per capita).

How people do legal transactions should be separated from their right to hold value apart from the banks. If people want to pay for their pizzas with a phone app, that is fine, but the right to hold some fungible value independent of a commercial bank is normally considered sacrosanct.

Swedes can hold diamonds or gold coins or artwork or even Euro banknotes. In 2018 the Riksbank will make a decision to issue a crypto currency which will be backed by the central bank. Current electronic money is backed by loans made by commercial banks.

If banknotes are circulating at 4,491kr per capita, I am curious what are common maximum withdrawal limits at ATMs. The Riksbank reports that most citizens can easily withdraw cash when they want it, but business in rural areas often find it difficult to deposit cash without long drives. As more and more businesses find it possible to earn adequate revenue with accepting cash, the less likely they are too accept it.

Last edited by PacoMartin; 08-10-2017 at 12:08 PM..
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