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Old 03-31-2019, 07:31 PM
 
1,455 posts, read 671,134 times
Reputation: 2356

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
So GM should fire everyone because they build second-rate cars?
That's the end result of building cars no one wants to buy. There is no right to stay in business forever. That only happens if an enterprise makes products consumers want to buy. That's bad for the workers, but I am not willing to subsidize them to pay for bad management decisions.
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Old 03-31-2019, 07:55 PM
 
959 posts, read 641,849 times
Reputation: 2286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
So GM should fire everyone because they build second-rate cars?
SAAB did.
Fisker Karma did.
Toys R Us did.
Blockbuster did.
Payless Shoes is about to.
Borders Books did.
The Limited did.


I can go on and on...
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Old 03-31-2019, 09:27 PM
 
27,813 posts, read 39,261,097 times
Reputation: 36058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
So, which is it, perfesser... are we all Luddites because we don't think Tesla has enough runway to achieve liftoff (despite any technological marveliciousness), or are you a Luddite because you'll never buy one?

You also completely, totally misunderstood my comment. Nothing like flying off the handle at supersonic speed in a wrong, if not completely imaginary direction.

To make it really, really, really clear... absolutely nothing about the OP or most of this thread had a g'damned thing to do with Tesla. But sure as shootin' someone has to ring them in. Red herring nonsense that just can't be escaped even if the OP is about Model T's.
Cute. You've forgotten who brought it up first. or as you seem to favor when attempting to avoid what seems to be criticism.

And methinks you don't understand the meaning of Luddite. The Luddites don't zero in on a specific brand. You must not understand that Tesla is not the only company making EVs.

If I misunderstood your comment why attack me over my comment?

Talk about flying off the handle.

The only interesting thing about posting back and forth with you is your complete lack of understanding.

To save myself from yet another stupid post I'm putting on ignore.
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Old 03-31-2019, 09:33 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit Michigan
3,860 posts, read 1,096,893 times
Reputation: 3074
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtt99 View Post
SAAB did.
Fisker Karma did.
Toys R Us did.
Blockbuster did.
Payless Shoes is about to.
Borders Books did.
The Limited did.


I can go on and on...
You have no idea on how big GM is do you and the automotive suppliers that would be effected along with shipping companies, restaurants, grocery stores, tire manufactures and i could go on. GM is a hell of a lot bigger than a toy chain, or department store chain. So getting rid of over 200,000 employees is nothing and would not effect the economy at all right. People without jobs really don’t pay federal tax. "Instead, it’s a negative effect.”

Then there’s the trickle-down effect. Without GM, auto parts suppliers would have struggled. Maybe gone under themselves. The carmakers use many of the same suppliers, so assembly lines at Ford would have ground to a halt. Dealerships would have suffered too.

“There would have been economic sinkholes in every community from the dealerships that were no longer selling vehicles. GM has more employees than all those retailers you listed, GM has over 200,000 people working for them.

Last edited by easy62; 03-31-2019 at 09:43 PM..
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Old 03-31-2019, 10:28 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
3,402 posts, read 1,495,152 times
Reputation: 5786
Quote:
Originally Posted by easy62 View Post
You have no idea on how big GM is do you and the automotive suppliers that would be effected along with shipping companies, restaurants, grocery stores, tire manufactures and i could go on. GM is a hell of a lot bigger than a toy chain, or department store chain. So getting rid of over 200,000 employees is nothing and would not effect the economy at all right. People without jobs really don’t pay federal tax. "Instead, it’s a negative effect.”

Then there’s the trickle-down effect. Without GM, auto parts suppliers would have struggled. Maybe gone under themselves. The carmakers use many of the same suppliers, so assembly lines at Ford would have ground to a halt. Dealerships would have suffered too.

“There would have been economic sinkholes in every community from the dealerships that were no longer selling vehicles. GM has more employees than all those retailers you listed, GM has over 200,000 people working for them.

Sadly, I think you are underestimating the impact it would have from the perspective manufacturers and manufacturing service providers that sell, perhaps indirectly, into the automotive industry. Everything from extruded plastics, metal finishing and coating, mold tool and die plants, airline, tractor and heavy equipment industries, shipbuilding etc....it all loses economy of scale.



The television was invented in the United States. Nearly every American household has at least 1. Yet we don't produce them anymore. Nearly every American household has a monitor or a computer, yet the chip wafer and the related supply chain have all been put overseas, where they have a vantage point of selling into the foreign market as well as the US market.



Department stores are going away because Americans no longer want to shop in that manner. Americans given up buying cars, computers or tvs. Those are still valuable. However, by dropping her guard to imports, the manufacturing has moved. Now that it has become established, the sitting guard will attempt to keep the status quo. Afterall, a group of us could get together and figure out how to assemble one...given the parts....but those parts had to follow the supply chain tops.



In areas like Silicon Valley, nobody cares because there's enough innovation to create new products and those new jobs are enough to satisfy. However, for areas that don't have 1/3 of the world's investment directed, those jobs are very valuable. Further, the innovations tend to follow production. It's a trick never done before where the two can operate independently for too long.



When you look around your home, which was built by Americans, how many American made items do you see? Alabama used to make clothing and textiles, but most closets now stuffed with imports. Cheap furniture is imported. Television, computers and electronics...imported. Maybe your appliances, HVAC and washer and dryer are still made here. Maybe your toilet, shower and faucets are.



It's too simplistic to say high costs. I do love free trade, but it needs to be fair as well. How can Germany still produce their own, but America cannot? Germany is smaller. More importantly though, Germany setup mercantile quality standards so that not everything falls to the lowest price only. Today they export more than they import by the largest margin in the world...even China. They run a budget surplus, all while paying for healthcare, keeping college education cheap and having very high environmental standards. By keeping in the game on all fronts, their supply chain can support a greater range of industries.



I'm not saying we copy Germany, but we could take steps to make trade free and fair. Of course, none of it will matter unless Americans are willing to support Americans. Until this lurching divide is finally narrowed.



Vote with your dollars when and where you can.
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Old 04-01-2019, 06:52 AM
 
Location: annandale, va & slidell, la
6,926 posts, read 2,866,963 times
Reputation: 5754
Quote:
Originally Posted by easy62 View Post
GM made a billion dollars from their stake in lyft today on their shares of lyft stock. This article was from yesterday but today it happened.


https://www.freep.com/story/money/ca...po/3235364002/
I made $1,000 in one day. What's the problem?

Maybe GM will pay back some of the money Obama forced the taxpayers to absorb.
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Old 04-01-2019, 03:22 PM
 
2,031 posts, read 3,510,152 times
Reputation: 1969
Quote:
Originally Posted by eaton53 View Post
GM fulfilled their obligation to the taxpayer.
....
no they did not, they still have to pay taxpayers 10 billions
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Old 04-01-2019, 03:49 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
12,942 posts, read 8,175,776 times
Reputation: 18809
GM put up 500M for 18.6M shares. That's 26.89 per share. And they did that in Jan 2016.LYFT is 69$ now.
There are 289M shares outstanding, so I don't think GM's crummy 18.6M will be very hard to dump. Meantime, most people will not notice that the Income sheet looks pretty bad. The stock may go down - probably will - but not down to any position that would actually hurt GM.
Most IPO's make money for the venture capitalists, and that's all.
There will be lots of talk about a "strong balance sheet" and it will all be true. Relatively few people realize that IPO money need never be paid back. LYFT will use the IPO money to keep themselves in business for a long time. Then they will issue more stock.
And more.
And more.
Meanwhile the original investors will take their gains, the senior executives will make mega-salaries, and by the time this swindle is done, the losses will have spread themselves thinly all over the country.
Logan Green, Founder, age 34 is now worth $450M.
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Old 04-01-2019, 05:59 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit Michigan
3,860 posts, read 1,096,893 times
Reputation: 3074
Quote:
Originally Posted by 28173 View Post
no they did not, they still have to pay taxpayers 10 billions
And so does some banks what’s your point More than 280 banks exited the TARP program without repaying its disbursements in full.
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Old 04-01-2019, 07:58 PM
 
959 posts, read 641,849 times
Reputation: 2286
Quote:
Originally Posted by easy62 View Post
And so does some banks what’s your point More than 280 banks exited the TARP program without repaying its disbursements in full.
Yeah, but we are talking about GM, not banks.
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