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Old 11-07-2008, 10:07 PM
 
Location: Tennessee/Michigan
27,994 posts, read 46,352,092 times
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In another sign of the economyís toll on the nationís health care system, some hospitals say they are seeing fewer paying patients ó even as greater numbers of people are showing up at emergency rooms unable to pay their bills.

While the full effects of the downturn are likely to become more evident in coming months as more people lose their jobs and their insurance coverage, some hospitals say they are already experiencing a fall-off in patient admissions.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/07/bu...AokJeuPyLumqoQ
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Old 11-08-2008, 07:53 AM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
16,836 posts, read 51,286,023 times
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If it ever comes to a majority of people without money, nationalized health care will become a reality regardless of anyone's beliefs or political leanings. There would be too many bankrupt healthcare providers and too many lawsuits for turning away the critically ill.

On the other side, doctors are now refusing to treat medicare patients because the payment schedules are becoming less than the cost of treatment and maintaining the offices.
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Old 11-08-2008, 09:13 AM
 
1,738 posts, read 3,882,521 times
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Boo hoo the doctor can't make payroll and only work half the month. Welcome to the global economy. They [the private enterprise oligarchy that owns this country] thought pushing the service economy agenda on the manufacturing base of this country was the end all be all, yet when these people became another statistic of the global wealth siphoning machine the medical profession just shrugged their shoulders and thought "nah, we're on safe ground". Welcome to Earth Doc, the water's warm but a little yellow. 50K/yr starting nursing salaries for gum-popping 22yo sorority girls who showed up to class twice a week and find working with blood "yuckie" wasn't meant to last forever, a correction in the medical field salaries is overdue. The cost of operation is unsubstantiated. While over-use has a hand in the cost average of service, pharmaceuticals, equipment providers and administration price gouging are behind the ridiculous cost of health care. Child birth shouldn't cost 30 grand regardless of who pays what percentage of that. Lower the overhead cost or tell doc he needs to "re-train" to a more "globally advantageous" profession, like they told the 25 year aircraft mechanic a decade ago.

When the blue collar worker gets indignant about reduction in quality of life he gets the entitlement speech. When Doc faces the same dilema the world is all of a sudden coming to an end. What a joke of moral relativism that is: in America only the rich are entitled to stay rich, but low-middle class people (who must be lazy by proxy) are not entitled to getting rich. Right, got it.
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Old 11-09-2008, 10:33 AM
 
551 posts, read 1,345,924 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John1960 View Post
In another sign of the economyís toll on the nationís health care system, some hospitals say they are seeing fewer paying patients ó even as greater numbers of people are showing up at emergency rooms unable to pay their bills.

While the full effects of the downturn are likely to become more evident in coming months as more people lose their jobs and their insurance coverage, some hospitals say they are already experiencing a fall-off in patient admissions.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/07/bu...AokJeuPyLumqoQ
Do you think doctors and nurses will be laid off???? Didn't think it could happen but after reading your article, it seems very possible...
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Old 11-09-2008, 10:36 PM
 
Location: So. of Rosarito, Baja, Mexico
6,571 posts, read 17,944,907 times
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I can somewhat have sympathy for Medical Doctors who refuse to see medicare patients. They have to pay high mal-practice insurance along with other related costs. A limit should made on any judgement against a doctor. They do not intentially practice bad medicine. Granted, there is going to be an isolated incident...after all they are not miracle workers. When was the last time a Lawyer failed to receive medical treatment by a physician?. Steve
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Old 11-11-2008, 09:25 PM
 
48,519 posts, read 80,998,062 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hindsight2020 View Post
Boo hoo the doctor can't make payroll and only work half the month. Welcome to the global economy. They [the private enterprise oligarchy that owns this country] thought pushing the service economy agenda on the manufacturing base of this country was the end all be all, yet when these people became another statistic of the global wealth siphoning machine the medical profession just shrugged their shoulders and thought "nah, we're on safe ground". Welcome to Earth Doc, the water's warm but a little yellow. 50K/yr starting nursing salaries for gum-popping 22yo sorority girls who showed up to class twice a week and find working with blood "yuckie" wasn't meant to last forever, a correction in the medical field salaries is overdue. The cost of operation is unsubstantiated. While over-use has a hand in the cost average of service, pharmaceuticals, equipment providers and administration price gouging are behind the ridiculous cost of health care. Child birth shouldn't cost 30 grand regardless of who pays what percentage of that. Lower the overhead cost or tell doc he needs to "re-train" to a more "globally advantageous" profession, like they told the 25 year aircraft mechanic a decade ago.

When the blue collar worker gets indignant about reduction in quality of life he gets the entitlement speech. When Doc faces the same dilema the world is all of a sudden coming to an end. What a joke of moral relativism that is: in America only the rich are entitled to stay rich, but low-middle class people (who must be lazy by proxy) are not entitled to getting rich. Right, got it.

Well ;when those hospitals in your area close;you will get your wish. As doctor start closing their practice and move then that will maybe make you happy.In the end waht you wish may kick you in the butt or worse.
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Old 11-11-2008, 09:46 PM
 
12,870 posts, read 12,770,385 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hindsight2020 View Post
Boo hoo the doctor can't make payroll and only work half the month. Welcome to the global economy. They [the private enterprise oligarchy that owns this country] thought pushing the service economy agenda on the manufacturing base of this country was the end all be all, yet when these people became another statistic of the global wealth siphoning machine the medical profession just shrugged their shoulders and thought "nah, we're on safe ground". Welcome to Earth Doc, the water's warm but a little yellow. 50K/yr starting nursing salaries for gum-popping 22yo sorority girls who showed up to class twice a week and find working with blood "yuckie" wasn't meant to last forever, a correction in the medical field salaries is overdue. The cost of operation is unsubstantiated. While over-use has a hand in the cost average of service, pharmaceuticals, equipment providers and administration price gouging are behind the ridiculous cost of health care. Child birth shouldn't cost 30 grand regardless of who pays what percentage of that. Lower the overhead cost or tell doc he needs to "re-train" to a more "globally advantageous" profession, like they told the 25 year aircraft mechanic a decade ago.

When the blue collar worker gets indignant about reduction in quality of life he gets the entitlement speech. When Doc faces the same dilema the world is all of a sudden coming to an end. What a joke of moral relativism that is: in America only the rich are entitled to stay rich, but low-middle class people (who must be lazy by proxy) are not entitled to getting rich. Right, got it.
you obviously have no idea what is involved with the cost, training, and time involved to become a physician. the problem with healthcare costs isn't that physicians are overpaid but rather that so many people suck into the system for free that the healthcare field has to get payment from somewhere. i can't think of any other industry in this country which treats everyone regularly whether they pay or not. also, if you add the abuse and overuse of the system by the people who are not going to be paying, you come closer to the root of the problem. they should actually have a sliding scale where everybody has to pay something and then people would not go if they didn't need to, but since they are not out anything they will go(and others will be forced to subsidize them).
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Old 11-18-2008, 09:09 AM
 
1,738 posts, read 3,882,521 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floridasandy View Post
you obviously have no idea what is involved with the cost, training, and time involved to become a physician. the problem with healthcare costs isn't that physicians are overpaid but rather that so many people suck into the system for free that the healthcare field has to get payment from somewhere. i can't think of any other industry in this country which treats everyone regularly whether they pay or not. also, if you add the abuse and overuse of the system by the people who are not going to be paying, you come closer to the root of the problem. they should actually have a sliding scale where everybody has to pay something and then people would not go if they didn't need to, but since they are not out anything they will go(and others will be forced to subsidize them).
Your argument is the standard entitlement complex of white collar america. Because I went in debt for six figures I'm therefore ENTITLED to compensation that'll put me above water and then some. I say again, welcome to the global economy Doc. According to your logic it's perfectly OK for those overpaid rivet-pushers at GM to do away with their unions and dillute their income to levels that'll make johnny white collar happy, but when the same principles of of economics encroach on an already de facto unionized medical profession (via barriers to entry,,the AMA) the MDs are now all of a sudden suffering Christ Incarnate. Yeah right. Do you actually believe for a second medical Doctor aspiring students will all of a sudden cross their arms and about face and punt on medical school? Many will do that sure, but look at the airline industry as a prime example of demand inelasticity. Once you open up the floodgates of med school, as demand for care currently demands, BOATLOADS of students hungry for a job will get in and get their education, flooding the market with doctors and diluting the income of said doctors as it should happen under a globalized nilly willy economy you people cheerlead for. Don't like it? Don't play the game. But don't argue said outcome is good enough for airline pilots, who carry your grandma at 500MPH every single day, and the rivet pusher that puts the chassis you drive to work everyday, and the engineer who Q.C'ed that spec, but not good enough for Doc because you argue his hands are the work of Jesus Christ himself. Outright moral relativism.

Overuse of the medical system? That's a mere architectural flaw side-symptom of the problem. The unsubstantiated technology cost being pushed by equipment manufacturers, pharmaceutical companies and management types are the reason health care literally costs more than an arm and a leg, and doctors want their cut legitimately, but that *** is up on doctors. Time to bark up the right tree.

The "free" market economy that's been pushed on the manufacturing base of this country says that doctors will have to follow suit, meaning the barriers to entry will have to come down and more doctors will need to be allowed to get churned out of med school. Doc wants none of that, because that will eat into his income potential, he doesn't want any part of globalization. Standard white collar entitlement behavior. I swam through the muck of eight years of undergraduate and graduate engineering education, on both sides of the classroom, so I DO know exactly what it takes to create an M.D. piece of paper, both economically and academically. I just do not subscribe to the degree-holders' moral relativism when it comes to their eroding purchasing power. Absolutely standard white collar argument of "my quality of life is earned and justified, after all I worked *really hard* in school; your quality of life creates inefficiency and is bloated" moral relativism... *ugh*.

Tell you what, management lowered the payscales once again on the regional carriers, we'll just let the flight attendant have a hack at it the rest of the flight, since doc in the back thinks I'm overpaid, of course pilots don't have the AMA for a union....

Last edited by hindsight2020; 11-18-2008 at 09:20 AM..
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Old 11-18-2008, 09:31 AM
 
5,092 posts, read 9,600,213 times
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We would love to be able to work around the existing mess that is the US medical industry.

At this point I tend to view the overall US Medical Industry as somewhat sleazier than used car salesfolks.

I suppose it may be like GM/Ford/Chrysler -- if they have to fall to get something that works, hand me an axe, and we will start chopping.
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Old 11-18-2008, 10:00 AM
 
76 posts, read 203,365 times
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I have a close friend in nursing school right now and recently she attended some class given by a doctor regarding the death of a patient and how to handle it with the family. This was a class given by the hospital for those that work there (upper scale area/hospital) and was predominately doctors in the class. What was shocking was that the person giving the class indicated that there was a code a doctor could use for the time spent talking to the grieving family in order to charge them.

I'm all for paying people for their time, but I don't think a doctor talking to the deceased's family is something I would charge for or be expectated to pay for unless I took alot of their time up. I guess they have codes for everything.

Last edited by reverse; 11-18-2008 at 10:16 AM..
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