I have an idea and need your suggestions (borrow, loan, agents)

[Topaz]

I know someone who started a handbag company and she got started by taking her handbags to a weekend outdoor market. When she started selling enough of them, she was able to leave her day job and focus full time on the handbags.

[Humanoid]

Originally Posted by greggd

First, be sure to get yourself a "good name/trademark" to add to the bag and patent that name/trademark.

You don't patent a brand name, you file for a trademark. Totally different process.

Originally Posted by Art Lover

So I plan to make many as soon as possible. One lady who was on The Big Idea went to a manufacturer in China and they are now manufacturing her handbags. I heard she is doing very well. The way I look at it even though handbags are a dime a dozen others are making big money doing this.

Not to be crass, but these shows shouldn't be taken too seriously. But in this case, how much of the lady's success comes from being on the show?

My point with the dim a dozen comment isn't that you can't make money, but rather that the market is filled with bags. There is a sea of bags and people that would like to make them. What is special about your bags? How are you going to market your bags? How will you develop a brand? You need to be able to answer these questions, otherwise your bags will just be another bag.

Also, if you are selling for $40~$70 then etsy will work fine. It bares that sort of price just fine. The only expensive stuff that does well on the site is from well known brands in the community. Why buy a $1000 bag instead of a $100 one? There is really one reason....brand name.

Having a nice product isn't enough to make it.

[Art Lover]

I do have many different ideas on how to market my bags. I worked in the insurance industry for years and was marketing daily. It was a different kind of marketing, but the experience I had will help me and there are so many ways to market my bags. Just from the 2 bags I sent to 2 of my friends I now have 2 orders. Other people will have one and then from there it will help grow my business, plus there are other ways. I don't expect miracles, at least not right away, but if I can do this even on a small scale basis and retire with social security someday I will be happy. My handbags are different, but right now how they differ is my secret. I've never seen any the way I can make mine (unique.) Now as far as developing a brand, I have some homework to do and I thank you for bringing this up because to be honest with you I never thought of a brand. This is one fo the reasons I decided to use the business forum so that somebody would give me some pointers and you did do that for me. That lady on The Big Idea made her fortune before she was on the show. Donny used to bring on people who made it big and ask them how they did it to help inspire his audience. If these people can do why can't anybody else? The key is really believing in your product or service.

[Humanoid]

Originally Posted by Art Lover

My handbags are different, but right now how they differ is my secret. I've never seen any the way I can make mine (unique.)

Being "unique" is a double edge sworded. The fact that a certain sort of product doesn't exist in the market place can mean two different things:

1.) The product idea is a failure, and hence doesn't exist in the market.
2.) Nobody has thought of the idea and hence doesn't exist in the market.

For things that don't require massive research and development, the answer is usually 1.).

Also, selling a "unique" market can be hard depending just how unique it is. From a marketing point of view its nice to have something that differentiates your product from others but if its too different it can become a problem. Usually, making your product stand out is more a function of marketing and branding your items a particular way than having some noticeable feature that stands out.

People act in very herd-like ways, so having products that stand out too much are very hard to sell.

Originally Posted by Art Lover

The key is really believing in your product or service.

No amount of believing in your product is going to replace sound business practices and good marketing strategies.

[greggd]

Originally Posted by sunsprit

Are we conflating "patents" and "copyright" on design and intellectual property here?

I don't understand how a bag would be "patentable" as a design/art item.

You are right.

I am thinking of "trademark"...for a name or symbol/her name or co. name to be used on the bag to identify it as her own product.

[Art Lover]

This is a new spin on an old idea, but not to the point as you described above "it might stand out too much." It's different and it's a really cool idea. I will put in the work that is involved. I have the time so why not use it to my advantage, and I will sell these handbags even if they don't make me rich. I've watched a number of budding artists when I lived in CA sell their artwork at craft shows over a period of years. Then they marketed their works of art in galleries and gradually people got to know their name(s) and their art. Since I'm also an artist many of us became friends. Now they are doing exactly what they want to do. No more worrying about bosses and co-workers or the other stresses on the job. Some tried to convince me to do the same, but working 40+ hours did not offer the time I needed to devote myself. Also, I did not have the ambition or enough faith in myself, but I do now. Got older, braver, lost my shyness, and developed faith in myself. These artists believed in themselves and because of that they made it happen. If I were to fail, then so be it. If I don't give it my all I'll die never knowing if I could have made a living, even if only a part time living doing what I love. I've had more than the normal problems people suffer starting from childhood, and I just feel I'm ready to do something that will bring me some happiness. I believe everything you've said and you have helped pave the way for me. Thank you for all of your help. Please don't hesitate to reply at any time if you can think of any other constructive ideas to pass along to me, good or bad, I'll listen. I will be grateful to hear your thoughts as you have already offered me so much sound advice.

[Humanoid]

Just want to note that being a successful artist and running a success business person are really two different birds. Now I'm sure they exist, but honestly I haven't known an artist that is also good at business. Sure, in some sense being an artist and selling your art work is a business but in other senses it really isn't.

To me there are two distinct options for artists:

1.) Work as an individual artist, usually hand making your items, as you gain popularity and create a brand around yourself you start to sell the rights to your artwork (or designs) to other companies.

2.) Start an actual business based around your own art where get your good manufactured etc etc.

Most of the artists I know do 1.) (or are trying to do this). I know of some companies that are like 2.), but its usually because there is more than one person in the business. This is the case with my business which is very art centric. All the partners in the business have rather different skills, personally, I can hardly draw a stick figure. What I've seen happen with 2.) a lot is that the artists get enough money together to get their designs manufactured only to find that there is no way they can sell that much of the same product. I've seen the garages....filled with this stuff.

Anyhow, with the absence of someone you can partner with that has a lot of business/manufacturing experience you may be much better off with 1.). You can still make great deals of money this way. Doing 1.) involves much less money on your end too.

[Art Lover]

#1 right now is going to be the best choice for me. A friend of mine wants to partner with me. She has the business experience, but not the manufacturing. Said she would even help with investment money; that's how much she likes my bags. I'm not ready to partner up with anybody at this time. I don't really know if I could become rich doing this, but if I'm able to supplement my social security and be able to have a decent life in my older years doing what I love, what more could I ask for. I managed to finish a bag this morning that I started 2 days ago. Worked on it a little here and there and each time I make these bags I get faster and come up with even more ideas to make my bag stand out (I won't over do it.) I've looked at the handbags on Etsy and although many of them are extremely beautiful, I like mine more than many of the ones I've seen (guess because they are mine and I'm prejudice.) What I also like about mine are the colors I've chosen. Being an artist has helped me use complimentary colors to my advantage. As far as those bags selling on Etsy for close to $1,000, I'm with you. I can't imagine anybody paying that much.
Thank you Humanoid, and enjoy your day!

[zman0]

Originally Posted by Humanoid

Patents are easy to apply for, but the process does not end there and it is here where legal help is likely to be required. There are design patents, but I'm not really sure if people use them for handbags. I think usually companies rely on their trademark and/or trade dress. So you can pretty much copy the bag so long as you don't put the other companies brand name on it.

Design patents are the best way to protect designs of accessories. Copyright and trademark do not adequately protect clothing designers, that's why it is so easy to find "knock-offs" of high-end manufacturers in stores.

Copyright law makes it very difficult to protect your idea, either it is functional (and therefore ineligible for copyright protection) or it isn't new (i.e. you're relying on an old idea).

Trademark/dress might be more appropriate, but again it is difficult to overcome the functionality issue. Also, if you change your handbag design, you would have to reapply for a new mark, and could run into problems that your "trademark" doesn't identify the source of the goods and is merely aesthetic.

Patents, and specifically design patents, are your best hope. These protect the visual appearance of your product, and recently it has become easier to enforce these. Unfortunately, it may take up to a year (or more) to receive a design patent, and the costs are pretty high ($2000 for an attorney).

Of the three, the design patent is the best tool to use to prevent "knock offs." But it is also the most expensive and time consuming. You may also require several design patents, depending on the variety of your handbags and how they compare to what is available in the market.

High end/popular designers - Versace, Prada, Coach - don't rely on the look of their bags so much as the trademark (logo) - Versace's face, Prada's "PRADA", Coach's "C" - to sell the goods. These marks/logos are unchanging, and are an indicator of quality/source, so are strongly protected under trademark law. Anyone (generally) can legally knock off a Versace handbag, but they can't legally add the Versace logo.

If you have any other questions about this IP mess, feel free to DM me.

[Art Lover]

zmanO & greggd,

The information you have given me is exactly what I needed. Thank you for taking the time explaining the first steps I should take, and the best approach for selling my bags. zmanO, if I can think of any questions I will DM you. Humanoid gave me some very good tips as well.