Boeing layoffs (2009, pay, contractors, salaries)

[bigtrees]

I read that Boeing is starting to lay people off. 800 in Witchita. And rumor has it that they are doing a hiring freeze and potentially additional layoffs next year.

Any guesses on how severe it will be? They like to tout their "strong order backlog" but I usually find the corporate world runs on the "monkey see monkey do" management theory, and now that most other large companies are laying off, they will too.

I'd be curious to hear your speculation.

[MichaelinWA]

These layoffs relate to Boeing's St. Louis-based defense business business, IDS, rather than the Seattle-based commercial biz, BCA. That said, the much-discussed tanker deal is important for jobs at BCA.

And based on what Boeing said this week, orders in the commercial business are slowing.

To me the bigger Seattle-related question is longer-term. Will the successor to Boeing's single-aisle 737 be built in Renton? Or somewhere in the southern U.S.?

[MichaelinWA]

Maybe layoffs will indeed come sooner rather than later.

Boeing warns layoffs coming in 2009

[bigtrees]

You heard it first here on city-data.com!

[mitsuturbo]

Boeing is planning to lay off 4500 people in the Puget Sound region, according to KIRO FM today.

[tortoisegirl]

I heard this today too from a Boeing employee. =(

[70Ford]

Boeing's first wave of layoff notices in the Puget Sound region this year, with 668 layoffs scheduled in March and April, is causing friction with the Machinists union.

"We see far too many contractors on site, and our expectation is that Boeing will release those individuals and return that work to our members to prevent any potential layoffs," said IAM district president Tom Wroblewski in a letter to his facilities maintenance members. "We put Boeing on notice that this was our interpretation. ... The Union will continue to press the Company on this matter."

Business & Technology | Boeing sends 668 layoff notices | Seattle Times Newspaper

[wsugrad03]

Per union regulations, the contractors will go first. Then layoffs will go in order of retention (R3->R2->R1), which follows a certain standard distribution of the work force.

Even with union protection, I know some R3's who are very worried about their job security. I don't think anyone expects that Boeing isn't going to be laying off additional jobs on top of the 10K already announced. IDS hasn't won a "major" contract since MMA years back. The Tanker is a MUST win for Boeing as well as any other contract bids IDS is participating in. I say this for the Puget Sound region, because IDS has a very large presence here. It's not just all about BCA. If IDS moved out of Puget Sound, I think we'd have ~6K engineers looking for work.

BCA has its own set of problems, and I wouldn't be surprised to see a relatively flat plane order for 2009. Any orders they do receive will be offset by cancelled 787 orders. With the 787 delayed 2 years, there's nothing Boeing can do about losing orders.

I totally agree with the previous poster about the next narrow body aircraft assembly location. Boeing hates unions, and to be honest, the unions have been a significant pain for Boeing's bottom line. Given the latest corporate language, I think the next aircraft assembly will be done outside of Puget Sound. However, I still think a majority of the engineering will still be done in Puget Sound. Boeing will have a hard time relocating engineers away from Puget Sound.

[AzDreamer]

You folks need to understand that Boeing can't play rough with it's unions. Boeing get lots of contracts from Uncle Sam, so Boeing has to play nice with the unions or the critters in Congress will express their displeasure by cutting off future contracts. How else can you explain their employees being paid more that twice what average manufacturing employees make.

[wsugrad03]

I agree that Boeing needs to play nice with the unions, but in all honestly, the company isn't going to be as competitive (price-wise) going into the future, and still pay premium salaries and benefits to their union members.

It's not just Boeing vs. EADS anymore. China, Russia, and Brazil are getting into the aerospace industry and will be a very tough competitors for Boeing in the future. EADS already beats Boeing in price because they receive Euro subsidies. EADS doesn't have to pay massive healthcare benefits for their employees since healthcare is a given right in Europe. That's a savings of many hundreds of dollars per employee each month. This is the same problem that is crippling GM and Ford while foreign automakers like Toyota don't have to pay high healthcare costs.

Then there's Lockheed, Northrop Grumman, BAE Systems, and Raytheon. NG has been cleaning house in government contracts lately. Lockheed is already the largest defense company in the world. When I worked for Boeing, I got job offers to work for NG, but I turned it down because the salary and benefits were under par compared to Boeing. Boeing truly pays very well and has stellar benefits. When I added up all of my benefits, Boeing was paying 33% of my annual income in benefits.

Boeing is one of the very few companies out there where a full time employee can get 100% paid college education (no strings attached), nearly 100% paid healthcare, a competitive salary, outstanding 401K matching, and a pension plan to boot. I don't want to see this change, because it's a really great thing that attracts a lot of talent to the company. However, when nearly all of the other competitors are cutting benefits and outbidding Boeing on government contracts, it really makes you wonder what Boeing is going to do in the future. Lockheed and NG recently got rid of their Pension plans.

They moved their HQ to Chicago, so I can easily see their next major manufacturing assembly moved to another state? After all, Boeing has a history of lettings states compete for their business. SPEEA and IAM have a strong hold in Washington. Not so much in CA and AZ.

Boeing is a great company, but as the world becomes more flat and competitive, I just feel that Boeing will have a hard time retaining their supremacy as an aerospace company.