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Judging people's economic class by the cars they drive and where they shop is a huge mistake.
My wife shops at Walmart all the time because it's inexpensive and she drives a Chevy SUV. I have friends who are worth 10 million who drive Jeep Wranglers and Hyundia's who shop there too. Hell my wife even goes to consignment stores for kids stuff sometimes.
Mostly the people you're talking about have decent incomes or maybe not even that. But this thinking that everyone in nice car is wealthy is silly.
Reminds me of something I used to tell my sales guys; poor people think rich people live by the "if you have to ask you can't afford it" motto. In truth, poorer people over pay because of this distorted thinking whereas the rich guy will beat your brains out over every penny.
You are correct, not all people who are wealthy drive expensive vehicles, nor do all poor people drive jalopies, I will certainly give you that.
However, in my experience, when glancing over the parking lot, you can almost certainly tell who is the high level management, and who is a clock watcher.
If you took a cross sectional of people who drive Mercedes-Benz Brand cars, I can almost guarantee you their average income will be much higher then people who drive Kia or Suzuki.
Absolutely, Target inserted itself just above WALMART and has expanded in both directions. They have excellent store brands that many people prefer to the Super Market. Just recently I have noticed many elderly spending over a hundred dollars on Grocery Items in line at Target. That won't go on for long without them expanding the Grocery area
Tell me, genius, where exactly do wealthy people in Jackson, MS shop? You think they take a helicopter to Manhattan?
My tunnel vision? I've lived in other areas and have visited most of the country. Sears is not a upper class store in any area, rather far from it. The fact that you think it is only tells me you have no idea about the upper class. Upper class is not the same as "wealthy", does the previously lower middle-class guy become upper class if he/she wins the lotto?
I know some upper-class people in the Jackson area, wanna know where they shop for their clothes, etc? Not Jackson! They are traveling all the time and have tons of opportunities to shop in high end stores.
The suggestion that sears is upper-class is just laughable, most of their store is filled with things they don't even shop for.
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Originally Posted by Randomdude
I dont think youve ever been in a Target or Walmart in your life. The jewelry, the toys, the music, the accessories, its ALL IDENTICAL.
Yeah, that's it I've never shopped at Wal-mart or Target. But anyways, sorry its not identical. If really like I could take some pictures!
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Originally Posted by Randomdude
If Target would overhaul more of their stores in to full grocery, and stop charging a 10-20% price premium on everything they have that Walmart has, there would be no more "Walmart exclusive" customers.
You think people shop at Target because the prices are higher?! Haha... Also, where the offerings are the same the price difference is no where near 10~20%. Target and Wal-mart offer similar prices on similar items, for example compare Target's generic medecine with Wal-mart's equate label. The price is almost identical. Wal-mart does tend to offer a better selection of generics though.
But one can simply go online to see that the prices are rather similar.
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Originally Posted by Randomdude
Considering Walmart doesnt operate in Buffalo city proper, you must be talking about one of its various stores sitting in the comparatively affluent suburbs. Maybe Amherst? Recently ranked 7th safest city in the US, or maybe Orchard Park?
You're not getting the point. A lot can happen in a radius of 3~4 miles. The safety of the city is irrelevant, all cities stratify themselves by social class. In the Buffalo area there are more middle-class areas right next to lower-middle class areas. Looking at a map tells you nothing about these sorts of things. So don't bother. But again, the original topic was stores across the street from each other not with 3~4 miles of each other.
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Originally Posted by Randomdude
I just provided evidence. When I get another chunk of time, Ill go pick another random city, and it will be the EXACT same thing, I can guarantee you.
Again looking up how close Wal-mart and Target are to each other tells you nothing. Here, there is a Target and Wal-mart within 4 miles of each other. Yet......the shoppers at them are rather different. Its so obvious, its amazing that anybody would dispute it.
Judging people's economic class by the cars they drive and where they shop is a huge mistake.
Its hardly a huge mistake. If you see someone with a crappy car pull up to Wal-mart the probability that they are broke is rather high. But the probability is not 100%, there are for example previously lower class people that now have money but still have their lower class shopping habits.
In terms of social class, its not so much the price tag of the car though. Some cars are expensive, yet marketed towards middle-class guys/gals that want to make themselves believe that driving an "higher-end car".
Anyhow, outside of essentials anything I purchase at Wal-mart falls apart. The store is geared towards lower income shoppers and sales low quality items. Usually people with money are not into purchasing junk, but there are exceptions to anything.
I know some upper-class people in the Jackson area, wanna know where they shop for their clothes, etc? Not Jackson! They are traveling all the time and have tons of opportunities to shop in high end stores.
Yep I bet you know plenty of wealthy people in Jackson, MS.
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Originally Posted by user_id
The suggestion that sears is upper-class is just laughable, most of their store is filled with things they don't even shop for.
Upper class store is completely relative to the locale. I really dont care what else you blabber on about related to this subject.
By the way, my uncle, who makes more in a year, then you will in your lifetime, exclusively shopped at Sears and JC Penney until a Nordstroms moved to Norfolk. Turns out, he doesnt have a helicopter to fly to NYC for clothes, nor is he interested in doing so.
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Originally Posted by user_id
Yeah, that's it I've never shopped at Wal-mart or Target. But anyways, sorry its not identical. If really like I could take some pictures!
Im in there all the time. Hell, just last month I was shopping for water socks in both stores. Walmart had them for $3 less, and neither shoe was "brand name".
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Originally Posted by user_id
You think people shop at Target because the prices are higher?! Haha...
No, they shop at Target because theyve been brainwashed by careful and strategic advertising.
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Originally Posted by user_id
Also, where the offerings are the same the price difference is no where near 10~20%.
Bunk. Why dont you compare ALL food items? Why dont you compare all non video game electronics? Lawn and garden? Sporting goods?
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Originally Posted by user_id
But one can simply go online to see that the prices are rather similar.
Really? You can? Thats amazing, because its telling me on Walmarts site that prices vary by store, and Equate brand products are only sold in stores. Ditto for food items.
So, how about we pick something else that both stores might have that isnt generic or food.
Wilson Official Football- NCAA Size
Walmart- $12.86
Target- $14.99
Monopoly Here and Now: Electronic Edition
Walmart- $29.88
Target- $35.99
Family Guy- Volume 6
Walmart- $22.86
Target- $29.99
10 Pack of littlest Pet Shop pets
Walmart- $19.97
Target-$22.99
Weber One Touch Grill
Walmart- $149.70
Target- $159.70
I could go on all day long. You are wrong (as usual), I am right (as usual).
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Originally Posted by user_id
You're not getting the point. A lot can happen in a radius of 3~4 miles. The safety of the city is irrelevant, all cities stratify themselves by social class.
The "social classes" in the wealthy Buffalo suburbs are pretty much white, and above average wealth. As homogenuous as they can be. Walmart is still right by Target competing for the SAME people.
Target, as with ALL of their demographics, has been able to stratify the exact same people with effective advertising.
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Originally Posted by user_id
In the Buffalo area there are more middle-class areas right next to lower-middle class areas.
Wrong. In Buffalo "city proper" this is the case. In many of the suburbs, the people are nearly uniformly similiar in cultural and income levels.
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Originally Posted by user_id
Looking at a map tells you nothing about these sorts of things. So don't bother. But again, the original topic was stores across the street from each other not with 3~4 miles of each other.
That is ONE STORE out of FIVE. Why dont you get off of it? The rest of the Target stores, outside of the one in Buffalo proper, which has no competition from Walmart, are less then 1 mile away from Walmart, and almost always in adjacent shopping centers.
The geography of Orchard Park, NY makes it nearly impossible for Target to have been any closer then 3.5 miles away from Walmart. However, they both back up to the EXACT same neighborhood, which is the town of Orchard Park.
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Originally Posted by user_id
Again looking up how close Wal-mart and Target are to each other tells you nothing. Here, there is a Target and Wal-mart within 4 miles of each other. Yet......the shoppers at them are rather different. Its so obvious, its amazing that anybody would dispute it.
The shoppers are different in stores close by each other because theyve been STRATIFIED BY TARGET ADVERTISING, even though they are almost all from the same exact surrounding neighborhoods. Some demographics of people have been scared by either Targets less then inclusive advertising practices, or their higher level of pricing. This is completely intentional on the part of Target.
Anyhow, outside of essentials anything I purchase at Wal-mart falls apart. The store is geared towards lower income shoppers and sales low quality items. Usually people with money are not into purchasing junk, but there are exceptions to anything.
When you are referring to "anything you purchase at Walmart", Target sells nearly identical items. You can put almost any product you find at Walmart in to the search engine of Target, and it will pop up.
So, by this statement, you must be referring to external clothes, which is basically the only item the two stores differentiate on. The funny thing about this concept is that both stores are probably importing "different" clothing from the exact same sweat shop in China.
Yep I bet you know plenty of wealthy people in Jackson, MS.
I never said I knew many wealthy people there, but I do know two couples. They both have condos here in California too.
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Originally Posted by Randomdude
Upper class store is completely relative to the locale.
No they are not due to this little thing called travel. But its clear that you are equating "upper class" with anybody making a decent wage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude
By the way, my uncle, who makes more in a year, then you will in your lifetime, exclusively shopped at Sears and JC Penney until a Nordstroms moved to Norfolk.
Firstly you have no idea how much I make, secondly having money does not magically make you upper class. You clearly have no idea what "upper class" refers to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude
No, they shop at Target because theyve been brainwashed by careful and strategic advertising.
Yes of course, it has nothing to do with the different product selection.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude
Bunk. Why dont you compare ALL food items?
I compare their prices on the things I shop for all the time and they are roughly equivalent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude
So, how about we pick something else that both stores might have that isnt generic or food.
Well, you are free to waste your time. But, selectively picking products with different pricing says little about aggregate prices. The stores have different demographics, as a result they are likely to use different pricing models.
Also, I have never claimed that the prices are identical, rather that walmart is not 20% more on average. Although for the things that you shop for on a daily basis the prices are pretty equivalent.
Anyhow, its pointless debating something that is so obvious. Target and Wal-mart have different demographics, this is well known to these respective companies.
I never said I knew many wealthy people there, but I do know two couples. They both have condos here in California too.
So you are basing your image of Jackson, MS on two insanely wealthy couples, who are likely only living in Jackson for the hell of it. Thats great, and Im sure, oh so accurate, judging from the median Jackson, MS income level.
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Originally Posted by user_id
No they are not due to this little thing called travel. But its clear that you are equating "upper class" with anybody making a decent wage.
Few people are going to travel states away simply to avoid being caught dead in a discount store. Sure, some people will take the private jet to NY every month, however, most people will simply shop at the highest end store available locally.
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Originally Posted by user_id
Firstly you have no idea how much I make, secondly having money does not magically make you upper class. You clearly have no idea what "upper class" refers to.
Upper class is defined by income, as are all classes. You are trying to define "class" by some sort of perceived imagery, which is exactly what stores like Target are trying to create. They are trying to make "lower end income" people, believe that they are better then other "lower end income people" by shopping at a store that is carrying the perception of higher class.
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id
Yes of course, it has nothing to do with the different product selection.
It doesnt, it has everything to do with Targets carefully planned marketing campaign to distance itself from, and create a distinct identity from Walmart. You can fill five carts of merchandise that is identical in both stores without even trying. Infact, if you cut out external clothing, and store brand items, I bet you would be hard pressed to find almost anything different at all between the two.
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Originally Posted by user_id
I compare their prices on the things I shop for all the time and they are roughly equivalent.
Which, as you say, are the basics. So, they have similiar prices on Hanes T-Shirts and store brand pharmeceuticals.....how exactly is that representitive of the store on a whole?
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Originally Posted by user_id
Well, you are free to waste your time. But, selectively picking products with different pricing says little about aggregate prices.
I picked merchandise from several different departments, same conclusion. In every case, it was the first two matching items I found on each list. Its not like I specifically searched for a case which Walmart had a lower price. Im sure thats probably exactly the conclusion youd run in to on at least 95% of items. That says plenty about aggregate prices.
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Originally Posted by user_id
The stores have different demographics, as a result they are likely to use different pricing models.
1. They have "different demographics" only depending on what demographic you are measuring.
2. Different pricing models? Bunk. Target simply doesnt carry the weight that Walmart does, nor do they suscribe to Walmarts lowest price at all cost theory of doing business. If Target could drop prices more, they surely would. Why would they not want to capture Walmarts market share?
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id
Also, I have never claimed that the prices are identical, rather that walmart is not 20% more on average. Although for the things that you shop for on a daily basis the prices are pretty equivalent.
Why do you always pick the extreme of everything I say, and ping on that. I stated that Target is charging a "10-20%" premium on most objects, and you will find this to be true on well over half of the items they have in common, and over 75% if you include food items.
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Originally Posted by user_id
Anyhow, its pointless debating something that is so obvious. Target and Wal-mart have different demographics, this is well known to these respective companies.
No, actually its not. I guess you missed my statement of doing a many page paper on Target in college. I have pages of communication with Target managers and employees. I have every ounce of corporate literature available to the public (and some that isnt so available), over a 3 year period.
I can promise you that you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.
Target and Walmart have identical demographics, and Target has carved out a market by stratifying these demographics. They have created a "demographic" within a demographic.
You have got to be a complete fool if you think any big box store is targeting exclusively higher end shoppers. There is not enough of them in this country to fuel sustained growth. That is a business model that would surely fail.
Judging people's economic class by the cars they drive and where they shop is a huge mistake.
My wife shops at Walmart all the time because it's inexpensive and she drives a Chevy SUV. I have friends who are worth 10 million who drive Jeep Wranglers and Hyundia's who shop there too. Hell my wife even goes to consignment stores for kids stuff sometimes.
Mostly the people you're talking about have decent incomes or maybe not even that. But this thinking that everyone in nice car is wealthy is silly.
Reminds me of something I used to tell my sales guys; poor people think rich people live by the "if you have to ask you can't afford it" motto. In truth, poorer people over pay because of this distorted thinking whereas the rich guy will beat your brains out over every penny.
Exactly.
Those who flaunt the conspicuous trappings of "wealth" - ie: expensive car, designer accessories are often the ones who are in the most amount of debt.
It amused me when we were buying our house that many listing realtors (we viewed without buyer's agent) would assume that because we were looking at a particular house then that was indicative of being the maximum we could afford. Far from it. We simply chose not to disclose our budget and viewed within a broad price range.
"Never judge a book by its cover" is such a pertinent phrase.
For many in the UK, specifically "old money", conspicuous display of wealth is considered the height of vulgarity.
"Upper class" in the UK is not defined by the amount of money one has.
As far as Target goes, well I've shopped there for some bits and pieces (couple of lamps, picture frames) and to be honest I think they sell much more aesthetically appealing stuff than WalMart - yes, it's all cheap crap made in China and won't last forever but what I have bought looks a lot better than anything I've seen in WalMart - and doesn't look like it came from Target!!!!!.
So you are basing your image of Jackson, MS on two insanely wealthy couples, who are likely only living in Jackson for the hell of it. Thats great, and Im sure, oh so accurate, judging from the median Jackson, MS income level.
No idea why you are yapping about income levels when I'm talking about upper-class folks, these people typically have a lot of wealth. Also, they are in the area because that is where they are from.
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Originally Posted by Randomdude
Few people are going to travel states away simply to avoid being caught dead in a discount store.
1.) These people travel all the time, 2.) They usually don't purchase their own household items, they have maids etc for that.
Again, the issue here is that you are equating "upper class" with "high income" and that is not accurate at all.
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Originally Posted by Randomdude
Upper class is defined by income, as are all classes.
I'm going to stop here as its clear you're not going to acknowledge reality or even both reading about matters. The distinctions between the social classes has nothing to do with income, its not even a factor. Even wealth is only mildly important. The distinctions between the social classes run very deep, its not just a matter of Family A having a net worth of $10 million and family B having a net worth of $100,000. Free feel to read about it.
Also, in terms of the demographic differences. Like I said pointless to "debate" about it as its clear you're just trying to convince yourself that Target shoppers are some how "suckers". But reality differs, demographically Target shoppers have higher incomes, are younger and more female.
"And while all age groups choose Wal-Mart, at around a dominant 50 percent rate, note how Target's "edge" has built more affinity with the younger group: 33 percent of people age 18 to 29 prefer the store, as do 33 percent of those 30 to 49, 26 percent of those 50 to 64 and just 18 percent of those 65 or older. Moreover, if we factor out older females, those over 50, Target's affinity with women climbs to 41 percent, a much narrower gap with Wal-Mart's 47 percent. Indeed, among the 18- to-49 age group, males selecting Target even climb a couple points, to 24 percent."
"Only 16 percent of those with incomes of $20,000 or less choose Target, but that climbs to 23 percent for those with incomes of $20,000 to $29,000, 26 percent for those earning $30,000 to $39,000, 29 percent for $40,000 to $74,000 and 47 percent among those with annual earnings of $75,000 or more."
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