Is California typically or atypically American? (school, pit bulls, military)

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by wburg

Nonsense. Hispanic American culture is no less American than African-American culture or European-American culture or Asian-American culture. America is a nation of immigrants, and California is a nation of migrants from other parts of the United States as well as immigrants from around the world. In terms of liberalism, the northeastern United States is just as liberal. In terms of Christianity, I'd like to see some numbers to back that up but it seems unlikely. In terms of the world's view of America, California may be the world's view of America but Hollywood is America's view of California. Hollywood is a small part of a larger state--there are many more farmers in California than movie stars.

Often, I think people assume that 'typically American' means 'people who think exactly like I think.' Typical American is indeed a broad spectrum of ideas and opinions, and always has been.

It is unlikely because New England is apparently the least religious region in the country.

New England least religious region in U.S. | The Kennebec Journal

News » Why is New England least religious region in U.S.? from the The Greenfield Recorder

New England surpasses West Coast as least religious region in America, study finds - Los Angeles Times

[Brenda-by-the-sea]

Originally Posted by californio sur

I think for the most part that California is certainly a different brand of America. Much more diverse and multi-cultural, California tends to be more over-minded and progressive. Things that happen here [cultural\ social\ political] seem to be years ahead of the rest of the nation though these trends eventually become national.

Try telling that to the folks who live in Redding or Ukiah.

[californio sur]

Originally Posted by Brenda-by-the-sea

Try telling that to the folks who live in Redding or Ukiah.

Ukiah is the county seat of Mendocino county & is 79% white [of which 19% are latino] and votes entirely Democratic so progressive thinking prevails. Redding is the county seat of Shasta county & is 88% white [of which 5% are latino] and votes entirely Republican. There are contradictions like this all over California. In most states rural areas are heavily white and very conservative. But not in California since Ukiah and Redding are very rural\ farm towns and probably around 100 miles apart yet quite different in significant ways.

[Brenda-by-the-sea]

Originally Posted by californio sur

Ukiah is the county seat of Mendocino county & is 79% white [of which 19% are latino] and votes entirely Democratic so progressive thinking prevails. Redding is the county seat of Shasta county & is 88% white [of which 5% are latino] and votes entirely Republican. There are contradictions like this all over California. In most states rural areas are heavily white and very conservative. But not in California since Ukiah and Redding are very rural\ farm towns and probably around 100 miles apart yet quite different in significant ways.

That analysis doesn't square with the experience of those of us who have personal experience in the area. To suggest that Redding -- which is a city FIVE TIMES the size of Ukiah -- is somehow more rural than Ukiah is simply wrong. Neither of these municipalities is rural by northern California standards. They are, in fact, the major population centers for their respective areas. They may be remote from major metropolitan hubs, but that doesn't make them rural. Their economies depend on the typical urban goods and services paradigm much more than on agriculture, even if on a much smaller scale than the big metro economies.

My main point remains: you can't typify the entire state through the lens of the southern California experience. In climate, culture and vibe, the entire northern third of the state is more akin to southern Oregon than it is to southern California.

[californio sur]

Originally Posted by Brenda-by-the-sea

That analysis doesn't square with the experience of those of us who have personal experience in the area. To suggest that Redding -- which is a city FIVE TIMES the size of Ukiah -- is somehow more rural than Ukiah is simply wrong. Neither of these municipalities is rural by northern California standards. They are, in fact, the major population centers for their respective areas. They may be remote from major metropolitan hubs, but that doesn't make them rural. Their economies depend on the typical urban goods and services paradigm much more than on agriculture, even if on a much smaller scale than the big metro economies.

My main point remains: you can't typify the entire state through the lens of the southern California experience. In climate, culture and vibe, the entire northern third of the state is more akin to southern Oregon than it is to southern California.

I think you are misunderstanding me. And I have no idea what you mean "through the lens of the southern California experience."

Redding is much larger [thanks for pointing that out] than Ukiah and probably shouldn't be categorized as rural. The Sacramento Valley is rural for the most part with lots of open land. My point is that in typical rural or lightly populated regions the mindset is often conservative like one would experience in the Midwest. But Ukiah and Mendocino county is even more rural than Redding\ Shasta county but it is not conservative politically. That kind of dynamic is different than one would normally observe outside of California. These examples support my argument that California is atypical compared to the U.S. in general.

[majoun]

Originally Posted by californio sur

Ukiah is the county seat of Mendocino county & is 79% white [of which 19% are latino] and votes entirely Democratic so progressive thinking prevails. Redding is the county seat of Shasta county & is 88% white [of which 5% are latino] and votes entirely Republican. There are contradictions like this all over California. In most states rural areas are heavily white and very conservative. But not in California since Ukiah and Redding are very rural\ farm towns and probably around 100 miles apart yet quite different in significant ways.

Mendocino County, like most of the far north, isn't exactly "progressive" in the sense of what "progressivism" means in the Bay Area or SoCal.

The far north has a strong libertarian streak inherited from the Old West. Which means social tolerance and a high regard for personal freedom on one hand, but a suspicion of government on the other. (And it being a center of one particular crop grown in CA has added to that). I've said before that it does feel like the "real California" much more than SoCal or the Bay Area in that it cherishes its Western heritage, preserves its natural beauty, and doesn't embrace the "paternalisms" common in the rest of the state (whether "progressive paternalism" or "conservative paternalism"). It still embraces the individualism that used to be common in FAR more of California. (Could you imagine ANY high ranking politician in California today saying what Pat Brown said, "don't mess with a man's car or a man's gun"?)

It goes to the Dems because they are seen as being less intrusive when it comes to personal freedoms, although more intrusive when it comes to economic freedoms. If the GOP ever dumped the Religious Right they'd have a fighting chance there.

[californio sur]

Originally Posted by majoun

Mendocino County, like most of the far north, isn't exactly "progressive" in the sense of what "progressivism" means in the Bay Area or SoCal.

The far north has a strong libertarian streak inherited from the Old West. Which means social tolerance and a high regard for personal freedom on one hand, but a suspicion of government on the other. (And it being a center of one particular crop grown in CA has added to that). I've said before that it does feel like the "real California" much more than SoCal or the Bay Area in that it cherishes its Western heritage, preserves its natural beauty, and doesn't embrace the "paternalisms" common in the rest of the state (whether "progressive paternalism" or "conservative paternalism"). It still embraces the individualism that used to be common in FAR more of California. (Could you imagine ANY high ranking politician in California today saying what Pat Brown said, "don't mess with a man's car or a man's gun"?)

It goes to the Dems because they are seen as being less intrusive when it comes to personal freedoms, although more intrusive when it comes to economic freedoms. If the GOP ever dumped the Religious Right they'd have a fighting chance there.

I see your point and certainly understand that marijuana cultivation has something to do with the libertarian feel of Mendocino county. But other areas of the nation also have counties where marijuana is the major crop and they are anything but Democratic.

Also the Green party in California is strongest in the north coastal counties [Humboldt\ Mendocino\ Sonoma, etc]. The Green party are essentially socialists to the left of the Democratic party.

If the Republican party dropped the religious right many people would feel comfortable voting for them again. But that day is a long way off in my opinion [maybe decades].

[Mr5150]

Ukiah-I lived in Mendocino county for 20 years-10 in Ukiah. I can tell you for a fact that Mendocino Co. (along with Humbolt) is a "unique place" all unto its own. When I left Ukiah for the Sierras for the first year I kept thinking how different life was in Eastern CA. Then I realized that Eastern CA is more like Nevada/the Great Basin and the Rocky mtn region than the North Coast. It was Mendocino that was different

I mow live in an area that is referred to in the Church World as the Bible belt of the west. You can't thorw a rock without hitting a Christian in my area. Not the case in Mendoland. If you were a Buddhist, Wiccan, Pagan everyone was good with you. If you were a Christian, not so much.

Lay a map of CA in the middle part of the US. The south end would sit on Alabama. The North in Ohio/Illinois. With that said to say CA is this or that is like saying Alabama is the same as Ohio.

[californio sur]

Originally Posted by Mr5150

Ukiah-I lived in Mendocino county for 20 years-10 in Ukiah. I can tell you for a fact that Mendocino Co. (along with Humbolt) is a "unique place" all unto its own. When I left Ukiah for the Sierras for the first year I kept thinking how different life was in Eastern CA. Then I realized that Eastern CA is more like Nevada/the Great Basin and the Rocky mtn region than the North Coast. It was Mendocino that was different

I mow live in an area that is referred to in the Church World as the Bible belt of the west. You can't thorw a rock without hitting a Christian in my area. Not the case in Mendoland. If you were a Buddhist, Wiccan, Pagan everyone was good with you. If you were a Christian, not so much.

Lay a map of CA in the middle part of the US. The south end would sit on Alabama. The North in Ohio/Illinois. With that said to say CA is this or that is like saying Alabama is the same as Ohio.

Was the marijuana culture in Ukiah part of the vibe? Is there a lot of weed cultivation in the Sierra's also? The only time I have been to Ukiah was when I was traveling back to LA after visiting my cousin in Arcata. I know Arcata is like marijuana-central and it seems the whole town is high. But Ukiah seemed mellow without everyone looking like they were hippies.

[Mr5150]

Originally Posted by californio sur

Was the marijuana culture in Ukiah part of the vibe?

Yep. But people dressed like you and I. Scratch the surface and you find an ex-hippie

Originally Posted by californio sur

Is there a lot of weed cultivation in the Sierra's also? . .

Nope, not so much save for the Mexican Mafia. Different world.