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They are certainly different, but not in terms of being small peaceful towns that are affordable.
The taxes in California are pretty low for those, like retirees, that are not making that much. The high marginal income taxes are not going to be a factor for most retirees and Prop 13 makes the properties taxes rather cheap.
prop 13 keeps the taxes down for those who brought their homes 30 years ago, but not those buying now or have purchased homes in the past 10 to 15 years. Do you know many states actually freeze property taxes for seniors?
Of course income taxes are lower for most seniors as they are on fixed incomes, but remember they are paying taxes on things like their investments plus many have retirement checks that are taxed. yes, seniors do pay less taxes but this holds true for all states, so the output is still lower in other states. Most of our friends that still live in No California would relocate now that they are retired but stay because of family ties.
Small towns are different throughout California than the cities and yes, they are different from many other states. This isn't saying bad or good, just different. My parents retired in Paradise, it has to be one of the most delightful little towns I have ever seen. Now my step mom lives in Chico, again a great place. My sister lived in Gerber before she passed away and my nephews live in Reddling.
Don't get me wrong, I certainly am not saying Ca doesn't have a lot of positives nor do I think everyone living there are nuts..I do see both sides. It is right for many, but this doesn't mean other places are wrong..
Perhaps I do stereotype Californians. But hey, I do enjoy California wines.
But it does seem they are resented in places like Montana, Idaho and Colorado because of that "I'm going to make this place more like California."
At least that's what my neighbors from Mesa, AZ have to say about Cali's. Don't know how they know about the other states.
Yeah! There are many other states that don't want to become Californicated. At issue, as you pointed out, are those who move and then not just expect but demand Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, Sushi Parlors and more diversity. Believe it or not, some "natives" like their state just the way it is and don't care for the, "Well, in California we did it this way" attitudes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soccersupporter
Too expensive, Too liberal, Too crowded. Too many Toos. Love our new life in Texas.
Yeah! There are many other states that don't want to become Californicated. At issue, as you pointed out, are those who move and then not just expect but demand Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, Sushi Parlors and more diversity. Believe it or not, some "natives" like their state just the way it is and don't care for the, "Well, in California we did it this way" attitudes.
There'sa life in Texas? When did that happen?
But we could use just one IN-n-Out and 1 Trader Joes, just one; pleeseee! I know you have a couple in MO!!!
Wishing to go because:
--Cost of living.
--Traffic and congestion.
--Air quality.
--Earthquake threat.
--Illegal immigration.
--Politics.
--End of a way of life.
Another old guy here that has lived in SoCal since the age of 6 that must leave my lifetime home area soon because of changes that are no longer tolerable. Posters Curmudgeon and Nmnita have given us the reasons for the ending of the California way of life on this and earlier threads that we older persons knew when we were young, and I concur with them, and share their feelings and opinions. Starting at age 12, spent 2 1/2 years in a rural area of SoCal (Elizabeth Lake), so a move to a small town would not be a culture shock. There is a small city in NorCal that I am very fond of, and am racked with indecision about a move there. While Northern California is like a different state compared with the heavy population centers on the coast and to the south, it is, alas, still part of California, thus unable to escape completely from the enormous problems of the rest of the state. Arizona and Idaho are practical options, both are still relatively free states compared to the ever increasing march of socialism and erosion of freedom in California.
I feel you there and it's not just many of the "old folks" that are wanting to jump ship.
Some of us are just born-kickbackers that don't feel like getting trampled in a high-speed rat-race.
prop 13 keeps the taxes down for those who brought their homes 30 years ago, but not those buying now or have purchased homes in the past 10 to 15 years. Do you know many states actually freeze property taxes for seniors?
Nita
The key to Prop 13 is predictability in Property Tax... Doesn't matter if you bought your home 30 years ago or last week... the formula is the same...
Age isn't a factor... a 75 year old couple or a 30 year old couple buying the same home would pay the same tax...
The key to Prop 13 is predictability in Property Tax... Doesn't matter if you bought your home 30 years ago or last week... the formula is the same...
Age isn't a factor... a 75 year old couple or a 30 year old couple buying the same home would pay the same tax...
I realize that, I was selling real Estate in Calif back when prop 13 was voted in. My point, when property shot up, taxes did as well. This is always the case, as we know and should be, but most places didn't see an increase in property values that many in Ca saw. This is and was great for those who bought when prices were within a normal range and great when the sellers were able to make a killing, but it put many in the poor house as they purchased inflated property with taxes to go along with the inflated prices.
The point being that we can not stop population growth but move further away if possible. When I visit relatives in northern California [even little podunks like Los Molinos] I enjoy the quiet countryside of olive and fruit groves. My relatives ask how I can live in Southern California and sometimes I stop and think about it for a minute. Then the utter boredom sets in. Unless you have cable TV the only stations are in Chico and Redding [that means 3 channels]. After the extreme heat starts cooling down people come outside and sit around drinking beer and arguing over how the local high school football team is better than the other little towns around. Or they gossip about everyone in town because everyone knows everyone it town. After a while I get very restless and really start to miss Los Angeles. When I get married and have some kids I might want to consider living in a small town but right now that type of living would kill me of sheer boredom.
Fifteen years ago I fell in love with the area around Lassen. We wanted to move to a little town, then only 1k population (last I looked it was 2k) but couldn't sell the house. I would have been happy to stay in California if I lived there.
But I grew up in Socal when it wasn't an overcrowded mess. There were areas between cities that didn't have houses or stripmalls on them. The culture was very different. I grew up when it wasn't as laid back as Oklahoma, but far far closer than the rush everwhere you go that is now. I just hated that. I never went anywhere because there were too many people and cars. Since I don't have a lot of income I couldn't afford to drive off somewhere 600 miles away to find some quiet.
The town I live in has about 9k. But you drive out of town proper (a few blocks from where my house is) and you hit trees. LOTS of trees and Cimmaron Creek. And people aren't in a hurry. And the cost of living is about half. It did take some getting used to "Oklahoma time" but I'm beginning to think I have absorbed it already. Next month I'll probably be going out to visit relatives, and will get to remember again why I moved.
If the hustle and bustle of LA is something you like, enjoy. Don't go to a smaller area and complain. I remember LA when it was far less junky and didn't bustle like it does now. My mom and grandmother and I would go to downtown from the Valley once in a while alone. Would you do that now? When I took the train out and had to get to the Greyhound bus terminal three blocks away I took a cab because it wasn't safe to walk three blocks. Same area we used to go to when I was a kid.
I lived in Riverside for the last twenty years of socal. I moved there specifically because it was laid back. I didn't feel underdressed like I did in OC. People weren't in a big hurry then, at least compared to OC and LA. But it too has mushroomed from 79k population when I first moved there to over 300k now. Same space and facilities. I lived next to Van Buren Blvd and it was never quiet or deserted. And the smog was horrible.
First trip here I couldn't believe that the air was invisible. And while I could get a block before I had to stop and catch up on breathing in Riverside, I have NO problem like that here. If I was just having kids I would far rather raise them here, where it may not be so exciting but maybe they don't have to have that constant stimulation either. Makes for a bad beginning. And are not breathing poision air into developing lungs and end up with compromised lung compasity as I have.
I don't miss the "good" California weather either. Discounting this last winter with its midwestern Blizzard for Christmas, which is way off the scale for here, it gets cold but not horribly cold. And then spring comes and its so beautiful and you appreciate it. Summer isn't as hot as Riverside but has a tad more humidity (Riverside is no longer a place of dry air) and fall is wonderful.
When the weather changes you don't just get used to it.
I've been here almost two years and quite honestly don't look forward to the trip out there except for visiting family. And guess what? Part of the family is already planning to move to Oregon and get OUT of socal as soon as they can.
Of course, I'd love to visit there. But love to come *home* to my grass and old house and miles of trees too.
I think if you look at who is moving away because the culture and pace of life has changed to where it is no longer comfortable, you'll find its often natives or very long term residents who just plain do not like what it has become and don't feel at home anymore.
I realize that, I was selling real Estate in Calif back when prop 13 was voted in. My point, when property shot up, taxes did as well. This is always the case, as we know and should be, but most places didn't see an increase in property values that many in Ca saw. This is and was great for those who bought when prices were within a normal range and great when the sellers were able to make a killing, but it put many in the poor house as they purchased inflated property with taxes to go along with the inflated prices.
Nita
I hear what you are saying...
What I've found is that it is common for each generation to think they stand alone... my city has had real estate booms and busts going back to the mid 1800's
I remember being in college in the 80's with mortgage rates hoovering around 15% and friends saying they will never be able to afford a home and how easy it was for their parents to buy when rates were 4%...
They forget that those areas where their parents bought in the 50's were often on the outskirts of town, considered less desirable, long commute and lacked the infrastructure in many cases...
The interesting part is those that bought in the 80's with 15% mortgages are now the same ones that cashed out and made a killing... I've reminded some of my friends how hard it was for them to buy their homes starting out and it is something their kids have to go through.
In the 70's, I would walk by many city owned homes in Oakland on the way to school... they were abandoned and the city was selling them for $1 to someone that would move in, spend $5000 in improvements over 5 years and then they would get the title for $1.
I know one of these dollar homes that sold for over $300k a few years ago and now it is banked owned and last I checked 60 to 65k could buy it... maybe less.
I'm sure you remember that buying a home came with it's own set of challenges back then...
I needed to have 3 years of steady employment in the same field with 2 years on the same job, 20% down plus closing, 6 months of living expenses in the bank, the home had to appraise and have a termite clearance....
A couple of years ago, a friends son, a Safeway checker had bought 5 homes and the receptionist at work bought 3... today, they the bank owns them. They were buying with literally nothing but a signature in some cases.
Prop 13 is the only bright spot California Tax Payers have...
I bought my current home at the height of the market and knew going in what I as undertaking and fully expect to be looking back 30 years from now and hear people say that I was one of the lucky ones that bought when prices were cheap.
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But hey, I do enjoy California wines.
