Court Stops Arizona Law\ California Vindicated (Darwin: tax, living, floors)

[AwayAndBackToSac]

Originally Posted by eagle7

I get VA medical benefits but no dental. I was at the va in loma linda yesterday & i was told i am not eligible for dental care through the VA. I was given a list of low-cost dental care providers in loma linda & san bernardino.

I am sorry. If your not service connected you can't use their Dentists. Regardless, if you have an abscess, Urgent care/ER will treat you. As to dental care, simple extractions are not that expensive.

[AwayAndBackToSac]

Originally Posted by ndfmnlf

That's why illegals should be legalized so they can start paying taxes and share in the hospital tab.

BTW, health care is my profession. I live in a lily white area of Illinois. The vast majority of deadbeats who show up in the ER or in the office and don't pay their bills are whites. Perhaps I should ask them next time to produce their birth certificates and US passports. For all I know, they could all be illegals. My bad!

I'll allow some leeway, but too work in health care...

You need to really understand the gravity of the situation.


snopes.com: Parkland Memorial Hospital and Illegal Immigrants

A recent patient survey indicated that 70% of woman who gave birth at Parkland in the first three months of 2006 were illegal immigrants.

[AwayAndBackToSac]

Originally Posted by ndfmnlf

That's why illegals should be legalized so they can start paying taxes and share in the hospital tab.

BTW, health care is my profession. I live in a lily white area of Illinois. The vast majority of deadbeats who show up in the ER or in the office and don't pay their bills are whites. Perhaps I should ask them next time to produce their birth certificates and US passports. For all I know, they could all be illegals. My bad!

And from 15 years ago...

http://www.gao.gov/archive/1998/he98030.pdf


"In fiscal year 1995, about $1.1 billion in AFDC and Food Stamp benefits
were provided to households with an illegal alien parent for the use of his
or her citizen child. This amount accounted for about 3 percent of AFDC
and 2 percent of Food Stamp benefit costs. A vast majority of the
households receiving these benefits resided in a few states—85 percent of
the AFDC households were in California, New York, Texas, and Arizona; 81
percent of Food Stamp households were in California, Texas, and Arizona.
California households alone accounted for $720 million of the combined
AFDC and Food Stamp benefit costs, with such households representing
about 10 percent of the state’s AFDC and Food Stamp caseloads. Although
illegal aliens also received SSI and HUD housing assistance for their citizen
children, data to develop estimates for these two programs were not
available."

[AwayAndBackToSac]

Originally Posted by ndfmnlf

That's why illegals should be legalized so they can start paying taxes and share in the hospital tab.

BTW, health care is my profession. I live in a lily white area of Illinois. The vast majority of deadbeats who show up in the ER or in the office and don't pay their bills are whites. Perhaps I should ask them next time to produce their birth certificates and US passports. For all I know, they could all be illegals. My bad!

And how about...

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05646r.pdf

In summary, for our study population of 55,322 illegal aliens, we found that:
• They were arrested at least a total of 459,614 times, averaging about 8
arrests per illegal alien. Nearly all had more than 1 arrest. Thirty-eight
percent (about 21,000) had between 2 and 5 arrests, 32 percent (about
18,000) had between 6 and 10 arrests, and 26 percent (about 15,000) had 11 or more arrests. Most of the arrests occurred after 1990.
• They were arrested for a total of about 700,000 criminal offenses,
averaging about 13 offenses per illegal alien. One arrest incident may
include multiple offenses, a fact that explains why there are nearly one
and half times more offenses than arrests.6 Almost all of these illegal aliens
were arrested for more than 1 offense. Slightly more than half of the 55,322 illegal aliens had between 2 and 10 offenses. About 45 percent of all offenses were drug or immigration offenses. About 15 percent were
property-related offenses such as burglary, larceny-theft, motor vehicle
theft, and property damage. About 12 percent were for violent offenses
such as murder, robbery, assault, and sex-related crimes. The balance was
for such other offenses as traffic violations, including driving under the
influence; fraud—including forgery and counterfeiting; weapons
violations; and obstruction of justice.
• Eighty percent of all arrests occurred in three states—California, Texas,
and Arizona. Specifically, about 58 percent of all arrests occurred in
California, 14 percent in Texas, and 8 percent in Arizona.

[ndfmnlf]

Originally Posted by AwayAndBackToSac

And from 15 years ago...

http://www.gao.gov/archive/1998/he98030.pdf


"In fiscal year 1995, about $1.1 billion in AFDC and Food Stamp benefits
were provided to households with an illegal alien parent for the use of his
or her citizen child. This amount accounted for about 3 percent of AFDC
and 2 percent of Food Stamp benefit costs. A vast majority of the
households receiving these benefits resided in a few states—85 percent of
the AFDC households were in California, New York, Texas, and Arizona; 81
percent of Food Stamp households were in California, Texas, and Arizona.
California households alone accounted for $720 million of the combined
AFDC and Food Stamp benefit costs, with such households representing
about 10 percent of the state’s AFDC and Food Stamp caseloads. Although
illegal aliens also received SSI and HUD housing assistance for their citizen
children, data to develop estimates for these two programs were not
available."

LOL....do you even understand what you're posting? Here, let me help you: "In fiscal year 1995, about $1.1 billion in AFDC and Food Stamp benefits
were provided to households with an illegal alien parent for the use of his
or her citizen child. This amount accounted for about 3 percent of AFDC
and 2 percent of Food Stamp benefit costs."

3 percent of AFDC and 2 percent of Food Stamp costs were attributable to illegal aliens. Which means 97% of AFDC and 98% of Food Stamp costs were attributable to non-illegal aliens (citizens and legal residents). The citizens/legals consumed the bulk of these entitlements.

But then again, this is an argument in favor of amnesty. If all those illegals became taxpaying citizens, then 100% of the costs can now be said to be attributable to taxpaying citizens/legal residents. No more free ride from non-taxpayers. How hard can this be to understand? It is simple arithmetic.

[Highnlite]

How very odd that those who most cry about personal rights, are so willing to give up their own personal rights for the illusion of security.

I have lived 6 decades without having to prove citizenship to law enforcement. As has the rest of America, no more, if those provisions are upheld.

Ben Franklin was right on.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by ndfmnlf

What? Are you afraid of competition?

I'm retired. You're the one who should be worried. But of course, that would require at least some modicum of intelligence, education and analytical ability, so never mind!

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by Highnlite

How very odd that those who most cry about personal rights, are so willing to give up their own personal rights for the illusion of security.

I have lived 6 decades without having to prove citizenship to law enforcement. As has the rest of America, no more, if those provisions are upheld.

Ben Franklin was right on.

and you still will not have to prove anything unless there is serious reason to doubt your citicenship. Add to that, we didn't create the problem, it was created by not cracking down years ago, now we will all have to suffer to some degree.

Nita

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by Highnlite

How very odd that those who most cry about personal rights, are so willing to give up their own personal rights for the illusion of security.

I have lived 6 decades without having to prove citizenship to law enforcement. As has the rest of America, no more, if those provisions are upheld.

Ben Franklin was right on.

Yep, which is why this law isn't the answer

[ndfmnlf]

Originally Posted by AwayAndBackToSac

And how about...

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05646r.pdf

In summary, for our study population of 55,322 illegal aliens, we found that:
• They were arrested at least a total of 459,614 times, averaging about 8
arrests per illegal alien. Nearly all had more than 1 arrest. Thirty-eight
percent (about 21,000) had between 2 and 5 arrests, 32 percent (about
18,000) had between 6 and 10 arrests, and 26 percent (about 15,000) had 11 or more arrests. Most of the arrests occurred after 1990.
• They were arrested for a total of about 700,000 criminal offenses,
averaging about 13 offenses per illegal alien. One arrest incident may
include multiple offenses, a fact that explains why there are nearly one
and half times more offenses than arrests.6 Almost all of these illegal aliens
were arrested for more than 1 offense. Slightly more than half of the 55,322 illegal aliens had between 2 and 10 offenses. About 45 percent of all offenses were drug or immigration offenses. About 15 percent were
property-related offenses such as burglary, larceny-theft, motor vehicle
theft, and property damage. About 12 percent were for violent offenses
such as murder, robbery, assault, and sex-related crimes. The balance was
for such other offenses as traffic violations, including driving under the
influence; fraud—including forgery and counterfeiting; weapons
violations; and obstruction of justice.
• Eighty percent of all arrests occurred in three states—California, Texas,
and Arizona. Specifically, about 58 percent of all arrests occurred in
California, 14 percent in Texas, and 8 percent in Arizona.

Again, may I offer you a lesson in statistics: the sample population of your data above is the universe of all illegal aliens. As the word implies, these "illegals" aren't exactly following the letter of the law. Hence the word "illegal". Many are living underground, on the run, hunted like dogs. So of course many of them will have spotty criminal records, just from the mere fact that crossing the border itself is considered a "crime".

But I will submit that a sizeable number of them are victims of false accusations and trumped-up charges. After all, if you are an illegal, what legal recourse do you really have if someone frames you, falsely accusing you of crimes you didn't really commit? You are destitute. You have no money to defend yourself in court. And even if you did, would you really volunteer to "out" yourself - exposing your lack of immigration documents - to challenge your accusers? You'd probably just continue hiding while the label "criminal" being slapped on you will stick.

I have great reason to suspect that the data you quote above is wildly inaccurate.

But let's assume your data is correct. When our immigration policy is run like the Prohibition, are you really surprised that criminal elements are attracted to the hugely profitable aspects of transporting undocumented aliens across the border? The more you restrict immigration, the more lucrative transporting illegal aliens becomes. Kind of like the Prohibition of alcohol and the current war against drugs. These restrictive laws have only made alcohol producers, bootleggers, and drug traffickers rich. They encourage the existence of a cottage industry of alcohol-, drug-, and human trafficking. Prohibition didn't fix the human desire to drink alcohol, nor will fascistic laws against illegal immigrants cure the human desire for a better life.

So here's your choice: clamp down hard on illegal immigrants, and sit back and watch as you pre-select the determined, hard core migrants with criminal records succeed in breaking your laws.....because it stands to reason that the weak and less determined would have failed already......Darwinian selection would favor the strong, the smart, the determined. These are the one you are more likely to select out of your universe of immigrants due to your harebrained immigration policies.

Or you can relax immigration laws....grant amnesty to those already here while deporting only those convicted felons. Give the rest of them legitimate SS numbers so they can start paying taxes. With increased tax revenues, you can then fix this country's fiscal mess so the rest of you can continue receiving your social security checks far into the future.....