Prop 8 overturned (Sacramento, Montclair: education, violation, driving)

[WesternGulf]

Those numbers that were released immediately subsequent after the election have been challenged. Especially those among blacks. Although still higher than any other group support among blacks was around 59%.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by WesternGulf

Those numbers that were released immediately subsequent after the election have been challenged. Especially those among blacks. Although still higher than any other group support among blacks was around 59%.

Maybe that's what I was actually hearing. I know there were suspicions regarding those numbers. If what you say is right, that further negates the point of those who claim a vast majority supported it.

[Voyageur]

Originally Posted by cardinal2007

With regards to the first point, if we are talking about same-sex marriage. It is a fact that any adult in California that is not already married had the right to marry any other consenting adult of their own sex during 2008. I don't see where that can be up for discussion. That right existed, in November of that year it was taken away.

With regards to the second point , that is completely backwards of the truth. Prop 8 took away rights of people, neither the court ruling in 2008 or yesterday took away anyone's right (unless you consider "the right to be free of people I don't like marrying" a right), the lack of a prop 8 wouldn't force anyone to do anything unless they work for the government. The existence of prop 8 prevents certain couples from getting married, that certainly is forcing ones desires on someone else with very real negative consequences for those unable to get married. Prop 8 only pertains to civil marriage, the right to be legally married by the state.

Yep.

And the fact that there are 18,000 legally married same-sex couples in California, who got married in California between June and November of 2008, is clear evidence of this.

[WesternGulf]

Come on htown and Californiasur, stop making examples out of people and their concerns. You guys are looking for entertainment rather than an actual discussion.

edit: I guess the comment was deleted

[WesternGulf]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

Maybe that's what I was actually hearing. I know there were suspicions regarding those numbers. If what you say is right, that further negates the point of those who claim a vast majority supported it.

Even if you average the percentages among ethnicity it does not even average out to the 52% support.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by WesternGulf

Even if you average the percentages among ethnicity it does not even average out to the 52% support.

You're right and that's almost within the margin of error it's such a small majority percentage.

[TANaples]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

And neither should the desire of one group to force their way into an institution that belongs to others. Anyway this is all water under the bridge.

Listen, I've given this a lot of thought and by now am willing to accept allowing gay marriage.

My biggest concern is that I don't believe for one minute that churches will be protected as far as being able to marry whomever they want.

And if you all thought Prop 8 was expensive, just wait until you try to force your way into churches. Then you will all know once and for all extent to which we are willing to go to protect our interests.

Go to a Catholic church with your divorce decree and see if they will marry you.

[14thandYou]

Originally Posted by TANaples

Go to a Catholic church with your divorce decree and see if they will marry you.

Or, try getting married in a Catholic church if you aren't Catholic.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by WesternGulf

Come on htown and Californiasur, stop making examples out of people and their concerns. You guys are looking for entertainment rather than an actual discussion.

They are only making fools out of themselves.

Originally Posted by voyageur

Yep.

And the fact that there are 18,000 legally married same-sex couples in California, who got married in California between June and November of 2008, is clear evidence of this.

Its evidence that when a certain group is unhappy with the will of the people and want to redefine a basic institution to suit their agenda-they can scream bloody murder to puppet, activist judges who will oblige their whims and indulgences.

Its how these 'marriages' occurred prior to Prop 8 and that's why Prop 8 was put on the ballot and its why Prop 8 passed with 7 Million votes-despite being outspent, despite being villified by the media, despite the Hollywood machine falling overthemselves to fight it, despite politicos from Sacramento to DC lining up to voice their opposition, the people of California still voiced loud and clear on Nov 4, 2008 that we will not surrender ourselves to the demands of anyone or any group.

And that was quite a proud day for our state. The world watched in awe and amazement as we the people of California told the world without equivocation that we will not be intimidated or forced to go along with something we think is wrong.

But based on the comments one finds here, you'd think that its always been that way and with a straight face, to even insinuate such a thing as something historically the case is so outlandishly ridiculous.

That some make this false claim without even batting an eye is downright disturbing.

[Gentoo]

And that was quite a proud day for our state. The world watched in awe and amazement as we the people of California told the world without equivocation that we will not be intimidated or forced to go along with something we think is wrong.

But based on the comments one finds here, you'd think that its always been that way and with a straight face, to even insinuate such a thing as something historically the case is so outlandishly ridiculous.

That some make this false claim without even batting an eye is downright disturbing.

For the love of all things good; what are you talking about?