Prop 8 - Judge rules to put marriages on hold (Montclair: weddings, live in)

[mayorhaggar]

The hold is only a few days, gay marriages will be legal again on the 18th of August.

But the anti-gay side can ask for another hold and might get it before then.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by Fontucky;

It was Franklin, and this is how he put it:

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."


How does this pertain to safety?

if ur correction is right, then thanks. I'm usingan iPhone at the airport...lol

anyway I think that this is no different from voters approving medicinal marijuana, doctor assisted suicides, etc.

When a single voice gets to be louder and carry more weight than the
voices of 7 million, then our govt no longer represents but lords over us.

I would be just as vehement about weed and suicides, even tho Ive never used the former and have no plans to do the latter.

[SacTown11]

This will go all the way to the Supreme Court where they will rule 5-4 against Gay Marriage and they will have no other recourse.

The real fight should have been to remove marriage from the purview of the government period. Force all people in a relationship to obtain a "domestic partnership" license, with which the couple could go to their respective religious/spiritual organization to be MARRIED.

This entire episode is a microchasm of government mucking things up so terribly that it becomes a political hotbutton issue. I do not support gay marriage. I support religious freedom. Which means, until the state removes marriage from the language of fee-based licensing, there will never be equality. For gays, nor for religious types.

Common sense is dead in America. It's all about forcing the other side to accept your beliefs. California is likely the worst place where this occurs. Racism, hate, vitirol...California, a utopia.

[Fontucky]

It's the system working as the founders designed it to work, so don't fret too much about that multiple voices stuff.

[1979]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Anyone else disturbed by how much power this one judge has over an
issue that affects millions of lives? To paraphrase Thomas Jefferson,anyone who surrenders freedom for safety deserves
neither.....except now we're handing over our sovereignty to a single man's whims.

What is disturbing, is the idea that people believe they have the right to vote on the rights of a significant minority of people in this country. It's no different than having a law restricting the rights of people with red hair for example, because you don't like them.

Prop 8 was promoted by perpetuating lies and other missinformation based on the hatred of gays primarily from two groups: the Mormon church, and the Catholic church. There is suppose to be a separation of church and state, and in order for churches to maintain there tax free platform they are suppose to be prohibited from lobbying. Of course, the people involved in promoting Prop 8 really only use a religous platform to legitimize, and justify such actions. These people lie, cheat and steal, commit adultry, and fornicate all they want, and more or less, thinks thats OK. If the church is so concerned about marriage, then why not lobby for a law illegalizing divorce, similar to Ireland? Why not lobby to end gambling, and stop the use of contraception?

If one actually takes the time to listen to the judge articulate why the law was unjust, it becomes crystal clear the supporters of prop 8 have no rational basis prohibiting same sex marriage. It's simply a stupid law, derived from hate. Regardless of how one feels, it is only a matter of time before same sex marriage will become the law of the land. The younger generation simply to do not have the same degree of homophobia as the older generations do.

[SacTown11]

Originally Posted by Fontucky

It's the system working as the founders designed it to work, so don't fret too much about that multiple voices stuff.

Yep, all the way to the Supreme Court. Careful what you wish for...

If people(especially the Gay lobby) would have just used common sense...there was an easier and more permanent way to succeed in bringing about Gay Marriage.

Foolish and short-sighted this was for the gay community.

All that needed to be done was to change the LANGUAGE in the California Code to make "Marriage" licenses into "Domestic Partnership" licenses, thereby removing the issue of marriage. You just go to your church to get married...and many churches support Gay Unions. Wal-la.

Apparently, this kind of common sense thinking is hard to come by these days. Not that I care anymore...I stopped being a Californian over a year ago. heh

[SacTown11]

Originally Posted by 1979

What is disturbing, is the idea that people believe they have the right to vote on the rights of a significant minority of people in this country. It's no different than having a law restricting the rights of people with red hair for example, because you don't like them.

Prop 8 was promoted by perpetuating lies and other missinformation based on the hatred of gays primarily from two groups: the Mormon church, and the Catholic church. There is suppose to be a separation of church and state, and in order for churches to maintain there tax free platform they are suppose to be prohibited from lobbying. Of course, the people involved in promoting Prop 8 really only use a religous platform to legitimize, and justify such actions. These people lie, cheat and steal, commit adultry, and fornicate all they want, and more or less, thinks thats OK. If the church is so concerned about marriage, then why not lobby for a law illegalizing divorce, similar to Ireland? Why not lobby to end gambling, and stop the use of contraception?

If one actually takes the time to listen to the judge articulate why the law was unjust, it becomes crystal clear the supporters of prop 8 have no rational basis prohibiting same sex marriage. It's simply a stupid law, derived from hate. Regardless of how one feels, it is only a matter of time before same sex marriage will become the law of the land. The younger generation simply to do not have the same degree of homophobia as the older generations do.

Yeah, kinda like removing the 2/3rds vote for our state budget, eh? In the end, the Supreme Court will uphold the ban on gay marriage and everyone loses. Yes, everyone...including the religious faction.

If you don't understand why, you never will.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by SacTown11

This will go all the way to the Supreme Court where they will rule 5-4 against Gay Marriage and they will have no other recourse.

The real fight should have been to remove marriage from the purview of the government period. Force all people in a relationship to obtain a "domestic partnership" license, with which the couple could go to their respective religious/spiritual organization to be MARRIED.

This entire episode is a microchasm of government mucking things up so terribly that it becomes a political hotbutton issue. I do not support gay marriage. I support religious freedom. Which means, until the state removes marriage from the language of fee-based licensing, there will never be equality. For gays, nor for religious types.

Common sense is dead in America. It's all about forcing the other side to accept your beliefs. California is likely the worst place where this occurs. Racism, hate, vitirol...California, a utopia.

finally someone suggests the exact same solution as me!

+1

the faster we can separate church and state, the better.

[SacTown11]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

finally someone suggests the exact same solution as me!

+1

the faster we can separate church and state, the better.

I suggested the same thing during the run up to the Prop 8 vote...boy was I attacked then. Nazi, bigot, etc etc...

It's hard to promote common sense when emotions are so heavily attached to something. On this issue, the emotions are high on both sides...

[user376]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

When a single voice gets to be louder and carry more weight than the
voices of 7 million, then our govt no longer represents but lords over us.

The Constitution was purposely designed this way to counteract the tyranny of the majority. I sure wouldn't want my rights to speak freely, to bear arms, etc., to be governed by "majority rules."