So what will they cut? (Los Angeles, Sacramento: credit, lawyers, unemployed)
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Interestingly enough, California, with 138 state employees per 10,000 population, has fewer state employees per capita than all states except Pennsylvania, Illinois and Florida.
The range is from a low of 119 (Florida) to a high of 602 (Hawaii). California is only 16 percent above the lowest state, while the highest state is 336 percent above California.
The national average is 176, while the median is 206 (Mississippi and Oregon). California is well below both of those points.
Yeah, ratios don't really matter. It's the cost as it relates to budgets. The average state worker makes six figures...but then you get all the "cost of living" Unions cries and I just roll my eyes. Cost of living for who? The top 5% of the population or the rest of us 95%?
The only six figure salary of any state worker that I could feasibly accept is the HEAD of an entire state department(Caltrans, CHP, etc). This will never happen though. The Unions control everything and until the Unions are broken the state of California will remain on a course for bankruptcy.
Which is why if I end up voting, it can only be for Meg - even though I don't believe she has a shot in hell at changing anything. Jerry Brown is a Union lapdog, so I very much doubt he is the solution considering the problem starts and ends with the outrageous Union Contracts.
Folks complain about public employees and their compensation, and perhaps they are correct. But before I'd get indignant about it I'd like to know how we compare to the other states, both in terms of the number of employees and their compensation.
In much of the general public political discussions today, it seems that a lot of folks (on both sides of multiple issues) come in with pitchforks and torches, but really don't have analytical information to back up their objections.
Being pissed off just seems to be enough...forget about any analytical information.
The analytical information is there even if the people don't know it for certain. They know they should be pissed and that is enough.
What you should research is how well funded the public employees pension plans are. This is why I suggested everyone watch Illinois. Their pension plan is nearly out of money, almost completely unfunded, so it should wake a lot of you up - if you are paying attention. CalPERS and CalSTRS are not 100% funded, in fact, they are losing ground to the tune of 8-10% a year in regards to unfunded liability. Who pays for that once the bills come due? Yes, the state of California - because each and every one of the pensions to state workers are GUARANTEED. So it doesn't matter if CalPERS or CalSTRS is successful or bankrupt, the people still get their full pension. How many in the private sector gets that kind of deal? Uhh, no one?
You can analyze til you blue in the face, it won't change cold hard reality. The good times are not coming back and will never come back, it's time to face reality and its time to break up the public unions.
It will not happen - not in California at least. Which is why I plan on moving to Colorado...the only state with a Taxpayers Bill of Rights.
So it doesn't matter if CalPERS or CalSTRS is successful or bankrupt, the people still get their full pension. How many in the private sector gets that kind of deal? Uhh, no one?
You can analyze til you blue in the face, it won't change cold hard reality. The good times are not coming back and will never come back, it's time to face reality and its time to break up the public unions.
Isn't the part above the key to your resentment? Isn't it the issue of public employees still having defined benefit pensions, while the private sector doesn't?
If it is, your objection probably would exist in practically every state.
Yeah, ratios don't really matter. It's the cost as it relates to budgets. The average state worker makes six figures...but then you get all the "cost of living" Unions cries and I just roll my eyes. Cost of living for who? The top 5% of the population or the rest of us 95%?
The only six figure salary of any state worker that I could feasibly accept is the HEAD of an entire state department(Caltrans, CHP, etc). This will never happen though. The Unions control everything and until the Unions are broken the state of California will remain on a course for bankruptcy.
Which is why if I end up voting, it can only be for Meg - even though I don't believe she has a shot in hell at changing anything. Jerry Brown is a Union lapdog, so I very much doubt he is the solution considering the problem starts and ends with the outrageous Union Contracts.
Very few state workers make six figure salaries. The average salary is somewhere around $65,000, or less if you factor in furloughs. You're not just spreading misinformation but making inflammatory statements as well.
By contrast, members of the Legislature earn something over $95K but also receive car allowances, gas cards, free maintenance and about $30K a year in tax free per diem payments. Much of their 1,200 or so staff earns over $100K.
By the way, ratios DO matter since they have a direct bearing on workload and productivity, as well as worker cost per capita in the state.
Isn't the part above the key to your resentment? Isn't it the issue of public employees still having defined benefit pensions, while the private sector doesn't?
If it is, your objection probably would exist in practically every state.
My objection is that it is entirely unsustainable and the benefit amounts are outrageous.
I have no resentment, as I have stated before, I am voting with my feet. Colorado has a Taxpayer Bill of Rights, which means those in charge cannot agree to insane Contract agreements...it is, in fact, illegal to do so.
You'd be surprised how unique California is. Actually, most blue states are in the same trouble. That isn't a political statement, just a statement of fact. Oregon, Illinois, New York, New Jersey, Ohio, Michigan, California...
It is what it is. People who are bad at math and refuse to exercise good judgement will impose their will on the rest, so enjoy the coming bankruptcy. I know I am in the minority, but I won't be around to suffer with the rest.
There are two ways to save California and both involve yet high taxes(Sorry Meg). One is cuts to services to the public and the other is cuts to salary and benefits.
No there's only one way to save California and that involves doing both of those things. It's like a losing weight...if you're really overweight you need to eat less AND exercise. A single-pronged approach won't be sufficient.
Very few state workers make six figure salaries. The average salary is somewhere around $65,000, or less if you factor in furloughs. You're not just spreading misinformation but making inflammatory statements as well.
By contrast, members of the Legislature earn something over $95K but also receive car allowances, gas cards, free maintenance and about $30K a year in tax free per diem payments. Much of their 1,200 or so staff earns over $100K.
By the way, ratios DO matter since they have a direct bearing on workload and productivity, as well as worker cost per capita in the state.
Ok, I am talking about what taxpayers pay...not what "officially" is paid to an individual in their paychecks. A state worker who is paid an average of $65,000 actually costs the taxpayers nearly DOUBLE that amount in pension contributions, healthcare, etc.
I am not being inflammatory...I am being pragmatic and honest. If anyone thinks we'll find $21 billion by cutting costs to the Legislature and Governors office is just foolish. Cutting ALL pay would reduce the deficit from $21 billion to about $20.75 billion. Jerry Brown is using the classic nonsensical tactic of stirring up anger over the "fat cats" in the capitol. I'm over falling for that crap.
My "misinformation" as you call it is actually quantifiable for anyone who does their homework. I don't check my democrat/republican talking point sheet for "facts" and "figures", all of which are likely fudged or simply made up.
Perhaps you think I am being inflammatory because I am forcing you to face reality. It isn't pretty and you are surely better off ignoring just about everything that comes out of either candidates mouth - any candidate in any race actually - and just look at the problem with an analytical, unbrainwashed mind. The world isn't red and blue, democrat/republican. The two parties worldviews are corrupt and impotent. People really need to start thinking for themselves and start exercising a hell of a lot more common sense.
I was tempted to be rude over the Legislation crap you just tried to feed me, but I held back. Just Do The Math...Jerry Brown really thinks people are that dumb - he is probably right. lol
Bust the unions. Trash the State constitution. Renegotiate those old pensions. .
The first idea is illegal. It violates Federal labor law.
The second idea may have some merit--but only if it is done in an orderly and thoughtful manner.
The third idea is illegal. A state has no legal ability to discharge existing contracts. To establish new contracts going forward (with new employees) is an excellent idea.
The only six figure salary of any state worker that I could feasibly accept is the HEAD of an entire state department(Caltrans, CHP, etc). .
What about a physician who teaches full time at a state university of medicine (UCI) or a DVM, or an attorney?
What about a professional engineer--one with a PE license and a masters degree? If you don't pay those workers and many who fall into similar situation competitive wages, they would quickly leave government work for more lucrative work in private industry. We, as citizens, need those workers.
If you think most governmental workers are "cubicle drones" you are wrong. I agree that some categories of workers are paid too much--$106K for a kindergarden teacher with 20 years experience and a PhD is too much--you are right--but there are very few of those people.
I "grew up" in private industry, and as a senior executive, saw just as much incompetence there as I did in my later career working for the government. Workers incompetence isn't as obvious in private industry because the business of industry is not as transparent as government work.
The solution for California is much simpler: 1. eliminate duplicate boards and agencies (Did you know that there are--last time I counted, 474 separate agencies that provide municipal water? --each with their own staff of managers!) 2. Either eliminate the welfare state, or close the borders--there has never been a nation that can have both open borders and a welfare state. 3. Dramatically reduce the regulations on business. California's overly regulated business environment--needless and mindless environmental rules, silly labor laws, on and on...for example: did you know that there were only one or two factories in the US that manufactured 50 caliber macine gun amunition? This is very much needed by the military. California outlawed the manufacture of 50 cal ammo--the company closed their California operations. It is nearly impossible to get a permit to finish furniture in Los Angeles. 4. Get rid of the California Air Resouces Board. 5. Reduce California welfare payments to the minimum required by Federal law. 6. Eliminate the laws that ultimately end up causing schools to have to employ so many people who do not teach....(Did you know that 50% of the staff at the LA Unifiedd has no teaching duties?)
The problem is not the workers. The problem IS the legislators.
Yeah, ratios don't really matter. It's the cost as it relates to budgets. The average state worker makes six figures...
Six figures? Where did you come up with that statistic?
According to the Sacramento Bee, the average is $57,536.16. I think that figure is close to the average income for the Sacramento Metro area. Of course there are some ridiculous salaries paid out by the State. The web page shows a coach making more than $2M a year, for an occupation which really contributes nothing to society. It is this kind of thing which needs to be taken care of. Instead, I see anger directed at all state employees.
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