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Old 10-21-2010, 04:57 PM
 
Location: the illegal immigrant state
753 posts, read 845,375 times
Reputation: 968

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highnlite. View Post
I think this is one of those urban myths. For a start, no Mexican is going to say stuff like, "We own this state now". Any of them who know their history will say, "We have owned this state since 1821 despite the illegal invasion and occupation by the Norte Americanos".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highnlite. View Post
Hoo boy, yes they sold it in a manner akin to a burglar breaking into your home, stealing half your stuff, leaving you a 20 dollar bill and saying I didn't steal your stuff, I bought it.

The US invaded Mexico in order to take California. The US invaded with 5 armies (one of which, the California invasion force came within a hairs breadth of being defeated at the battle of San Pasqual).

The US occupied Mexico City and Mexico's Pacific ports for two years, stole half of Mexico, forced Mexico to sign a treaty "selling" half of their country to the US.

You don't consider invading, occupying, and taking half of some one else's country "pilfering"?? hoo boy.
This is the mentality that rationalizes illegal immigration and amnesty, which in effect is turning CA into the same poor, ignorance-filled, dirty, violent, drug cartel-dominated place that is Mexico.

If you can be rational for all of a few moments, you can see that that Americanization of the southwest- CA, AZ, NM, etc. is the best thing that ever happened to the region.

After all, it gave Mexicans a place to come to find work- something they can't find in their ever-beloved home country.

In the Americas in general, it's the Anglicized region that has always been more prosperous and had a higher quality of life whereas the Latin regions have long been inferior in both respects. Think about it.
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Old 10-21-2010, 05:20 PM
 
56 posts, read 65,155 times
Reputation: 59
Quote:
This is the mentality that rationalizes illegal immigration and amnesty, which in effect is turning CA into the same poor, ignorance-filled, dirty, violent, drug cartel-dominated place that is Mexico.

If you can be rational for all of a few moments, you can see that that Americanization of the southwest- CA, AZ, NM, etc. is the best thing that ever happened to the region.

After all, it gave Mexicans a place to come to find work- something they can't find in their ever-beloved home country.

In the Americas in general, it's the Anglicized region that has always been more prosperous and had a higher quality of life whereas the Latin regions have long been inferior in both respects. Think about it.
Holy Cowbunga, Heck, thinking like that reminds me of ole Adolf Hitler, he cured the runaway inflation, made the trains run on time, built the autobahns, He musta been the best thing that ever happened to Germany.

Quote:
This is the mentality that rationalizes illegal immigration and amnesty, which in effect is turning CA into the same poor, ignorance-filled, dirty, violent, drug cartel-dominated place that is Mexico.
People wonder why I say that modern conservatives are proof the American Educational system has failed America, this line is evidence. For anyone to think that understanding history rationalizes anything, is clear evidence that some folks just did not get an education, no matter how hard their overpaid unionized teachers tried.
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Old 10-21-2010, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Hills & Hollers of the Aux Arcs
19,017 posts, read 16,254,668 times
Reputation: 16973
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjnative View Post
This is the mentality that rationalizes illegal immigration and amnesty, which in effect is turning CA into the same poor, ignorance-filled, dirty, violent, drug cartel-dominated place that is Mexico.

If you can be rational for all of a few moments, you can see that that Americanization of the southwest- CA, AZ, NM, etc. is the best thing that ever happened to the region.

After all, it gave Mexicans a place to come to find work- something they can't find in their ever-beloved home country.

In the Americas in general, it's the Anglicized region that has always been more prosperous and had a higher quality of life whereas the Latin regions have long been inferior in both respects. Think about it.
That rationalization thing. That's a huge if. I guess it's just an historical anomaly that European and Asian civilizations advanced faster and further than those in other parts of the world. Likely just a bad joke or someone's imagination like the rise and fall of the Roman Empire; many social dynamics of which this and other countries seem hell-bent on duplicating. I also guess that George Santayana was just drunk when he said, "Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

Funny how it's only in modern times and the one-way minds of certain people who consider themselves educated deep thinkers and superior that a successful civilization rests on the shoulders of one political and philosophical bent to the exclusion of all others.

I worry about California!
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Old 10-21-2010, 07:41 PM
 
56 posts, read 65,155 times
Reputation: 59
I suggest ya'll read; Guns, Germs and Steel, by Jared Diamond. You might jess edjucamate yourselves.

It requires a concentrated degree of irrationality to think that progress would come from conservative, near psychologically impossible.
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Old 10-21-2010, 08:28 PM
 
14,353 posts, read 12,218,904 times
Reputation: 10267
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNLV09 View Post
If it weren't for liberals, slavery would still be legal, women wouldn't have the right to vote and the civil rights movement never would have happened. Hell, if it weren't for liberals, the United States wouldn't even exist. The idea that every man should be equal and should have representation in his government, was extremely liberal in the 18th century.

As for the exaggerations about the economy, I certainly haven't seen anyone standing in soup lines yet.
When are we going to get that it's about balance!!!!!!!!

If we've gotten soooooooo liberal that we allow massive illegal immigration and ignore our own immigration laws, then maybe the liberal philosophy has gone too far.

If you go to the extreme left, you get Chairman Mao. You go to the extreme right and you get Hitler. Too far in either direction = dictatorship.
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Old 10-21-2010, 08:44 PM
 
Location: West Palm Beach - Flamingo Park
14,698 posts, read 16,248,049 times
Reputation: 6290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highnlite
Hoo boy, yes they sold it in a manner akin to a burglar breaking into your home, stealing half your stuff, leaving you a 20 dollar bill and saying I didn't steal your stuff, I bought it.
Hmmm.... so Americans stole the land from Mexicans, who Mexicans stole the Southwest from Spain, who stole the Southwest from the original native inhabitants, who may or may not have stolen the land from pre-Clovis populations some thousands of years ago.

BTW, funny you should mention the "burglar" analogy, given how apropos the "breaking and entering" analogy is for illegal immigration.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Highnlite
The US occupied Mexico City and Mexico's Pacific ports for two years, stole half of Mexico, forced Mexico to sign a treaty "selling" half of their country to the US.
In retrospect, the US should probably have annexed the whole damn country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Highnlite
You don't consider invading, occupying, and taking half of some one else's country "pilfering"?? hoo boy.
Yes, yes, and welcome to the year 2010. I'm sure next you can scurry on over to Iberia and fan some flames of discontent about the Caliphate's occupation of the peninsula in 900 AD.

The Mexicans that were present in the American Southwest back when it was "turned" (by the grace of God or his equivalent) became AMERICAN citizens. Only 9% of Mexicans in the US today trace their roots back that far. The guy from Chiapas that cuts the grass? Yeaaaahh..... no birthright to the American SW, no matter how you wanna skew it.
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Old 10-21-2010, 08:45 PM
 
56 posts, read 65,155 times
Reputation: 59
Quote:
If we've gotten soooooooo liberal that we allow massive illegal immigration and ignore our own immigration laws, then maybe the liberal philosophy has gone too far.
You have it backwards, illegal immigration is and has been promoted by Conservative Republican businessmen. Just one example. Finding a Democrat or liberal grower of produce or fruit in California is as easy as finding palm trees in Antarctica. 80% of workers in those fields are illegals, working for conservative Republican businessmen.

Since we all know that liberals are sitting around on welfare drinking Perrier, and only red blooded patriotic Republicans are capitalist free enterprise business owners, and since we know that illegals come here to work, they have to work for red blooded, patriotic, Conservative Republicans.

Too funny.
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Old 10-21-2010, 08:53 PM
 
56 posts, read 65,155 times
Reputation: 59
Quote:
BTW, funny you should mention the "burglar" analogy, given how apropos the "breaking and entering" analogy is for illegal immigration.
So, you own a home, some guy breaks in, kicks you out, gives you a 20 dollar bill, says he bought it, and you try to get back in, but he calls you illegal, I get it.

Too funny
Quote:
In retrospect, the US should probably have annexed the whole damn country.
You are advocating a Mexican majority in America, you sure you want to follow that logic?

Quote:
Only 9% of Mexicans in the US today trace their roots back that far. The guy from Chiapas that cuts the grass? Yeaaaahh..... no birthright to the American SW, no matter how you wanna skew it.
Yet another logical fallacy, the land of the southwest was part of Mexico, it was held by all Mexicans, America took it by military force, took land held as part of the patrimony of Mexico, held by all Mexicans.

Your logic says that if the Confederacy left the Union, then the Union had no further claim on that land.
Are you sure you want to follow your logic?

Now, here is your homework. Contrast and compare the justifications for, and the popularity of; Polk's war against Mexico, with Bush's war against Iraq.
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Old 10-21-2010, 09:06 PM
 
Location: Hills & Hollers of the Aux Arcs
19,017 posts, read 16,254,668 times
Reputation: 16973
Oh, my. I guess Hollywood and music industry millionaires/elites don't include any liberals whatsoever -- the ones who won't lower themselves to dirty their hands feeding the populace. Learn something new every day. If conservatives feed the nation and a good part of the world then I say we should thank them. Really funny!

But you know how them gun totin', bible thumpin' folks treated to a scathing remark from the President who's supposed to represent all the country's citizens are. But that doesn't explain why WW I (Wilson), WW II (Roosevelt), Korean War (Truman) and Vietnam (Kennedy/Johnson) were entered into under "liberal" administrations. Major conflicts presided over by tree huggin', tofu eatin', pet lovin', make peace not war, Kumbaya singin' liberals who also brought us the Summer of Love resplendant with drug use and immorality. Go figure.

My point is, both sides can make many arguments but there is a balance there for those who are open to and capable of recognizing reality. Neither conservatives nor liberals can take the full credit for what's good about this country, nor should they accept the blame for everything that's not. Only the people can and last time I checked, that has always included both sides of the aisle, plus some.
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Old 10-21-2010, 09:15 PM
 
56 posts, read 65,155 times
Reputation: 59
Ok, tell us one good thing conservatives ever did for this country?
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