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Old 10-22-2010, 05:09 PM
 
7,150 posts, read 10,833,676 times
Reputation: 3806

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewToCA View Post
While not disputing pensions are certainly an issue that both parties agree need to be addressed, let's also put the problem in perspective here.

This publication objectively analyzes the pension funding in multiple states, and finds California is in relatively good shape overall:

Pension liability: $454 billion
Percent funded: 86.89%
Employees in Pension Plans: 1,995, 169
California finds itself at the bottom of the list with the highest unfunded pension liability: $59.49 billion. Although the Golden State has the largest outstanding balance, it's still funded above the GAO-recommended 80 percent level. The state also has the highest amount of assets with $394.46 billion, with New York in a not-so-close second of $151.68 billion.


Pension Preparedness
Good for you ... You must be going to the Jon Stewart rally to restore some sanity, in Wash. D.C. -- heh Hyperbole not on your list of hobbies?
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Old 10-22-2010, 06:41 PM
 
Location: SW MO
23,593 posts, read 37,301,329 times
Reputation: 29336
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
Good One! Have you ever considered professional comedy?
That is some funny stuff. LOL LOL
No! And if I were you I wouldn't quit my day job. Of course, that may not be an issue or you might not be so vituperative towards those who actually have jobs and work for a living. Come to think of it, most hyenas aren't employable.
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Old 10-22-2010, 07:33 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
14,044 posts, read 27,101,372 times
Reputation: 7373
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Good for you ... You must be going to the Jon Stewart rally to restore some sanity, in Wash. D.C. -- heh Hyperbole not on your list of hobbies?
Actually, one of the things I find most fascinating in public policy discussions is how often folks build major theories out of snippets of information. Often, this information could mean many things, depending upon context.

After building these major theories, they then attack them, not realizing they are often battling their own straw man.

As I stated in an earlier posting in this thread, there probably are some changes that need to be made in California (and local gov't) pension plans, but I kind of like to discuss this from a factual and "options" perspective. Though not a current or former state/local employee myself, I really have no resentment of these folks. On the other hand, I think their compensation should be appropriate, not damaging to the state budget or programs.

Kind of hurts me for rep points though, don't get folks all passionate and spun up when you post from a measured position...
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Old 10-22-2010, 08:11 PM
 
Location: SW MO
23,593 posts, read 37,301,329 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewToCA View Post
As I stated in an earlier posting in this thread, there probably are some changes that need to be made in California (and local gov't) pension plans, but I kind of like to discuss this from a factual and "options" perspective. Though not a current or former state/local employee myself, I really have no resentment of these folks. On the other hand, I think their compensation should be appropriate, not damaging to the state budget or programs.

Kind of hurts me for rep points though, don't get folks all passionate and spun up when you post from a measured position...
But balance is nice. One of the problems with politics is that everyone thinks they and their side are right and most are neither willing to listen nor pay heed to sensible ideas from the "other" side.

I remember many a meeting with proponents, lobbyists, opposition representatives and legislators or their staff that devoilved into finger-pointing, insults and name calling. Since I represented the administration/Governor, there were limits on how I could respond. Probably just as well.

If you think "facts" get left out of the equation here, you ought to try the Capitol!
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Old 10-23-2010, 12:26 AM
 
1,011 posts, read 1,012,926 times
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I've never been a state employee, so I don't know how it works, but isn't it unfair that state employees are *entitled* to a pension just by the virtue of being hired on the tax dollars by the sate, whereas the majority of the taxpaying population (which pays for those state employee pensions) being employed by private firms must fend for themselves with 401Ks and IRAs private retirement plans which are mostly a stock gamble?

I would abolish these state guaranteed pensions altogether and have the state employed folks have to do what every other employee has to - 401K, IRA, private retirement funds... WITH THE SAID EMPLOYEE HAVING TO CONTRIBUTE THEIR OWN, OFTEN AS HIGH AS 100%, PORTION (when the firm doesn't do the matching).

Last edited by wellyouknow; 10-23-2010 at 12:54 AM..
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Old 10-23-2010, 01:13 AM
 
Location: Eureka CA
9,519 posts, read 14,645,110 times
Reputation: 15067
Have to concur with every word Curmudgeon has said.
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Old 10-23-2010, 10:22 PM
 
Location: Escondido, CA
1,504 posts, read 6,128,158 times
Reputation: 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by wellyouknow View Post

I would abolish these state guaranteed pensions altogether and have the state employed folks have to do what every other employee has to - 401K, IRA, private retirement funds... WITH THE SAID EMPLOYEE HAVING TO CONTRIBUTE THEIR OWN, OFTEN AS HIGH AS 100%, PORTION (when the firm doesn't do the matching).
Hate to break it to you, but that is exactly how California pension funds work. The employee has to contribute part of his paycheck into the fund, the state does the matching.

Furthermore, some private company 401k's and many IRA's offer a product called 'annuity', where you contribute money up front and start drawing a fixed pension once you retire.

The biggest difference between IRA annuities and California pensions is that the IRA annuity is only as secure as the company that sold it (if it goes bankrupt, your retirement money is gone), and state pension funds are backed by the taxpayer as a last resort, in case the trustees really mishandle things and the fund runs out of money.
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Old 10-23-2010, 10:53 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,129 posts, read 31,113,429 times
Reputation: 6920
The average resident doesn't even pay $3,000 a year in state taxes. Nice try.
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Old 10-23-2010, 11:08 PM
 
Location: RSM
5,113 posts, read 19,681,943 times
Reputation: 1927
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewToCA View Post
The state also has the highest amount of assets with $394.46 billion, with New York in a not-so-close second of $151.68 billion.
The state also has ~12m more people(not counting illegals). So by a pure numbers game, it should have significantly more.
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Old 10-24-2010, 11:27 AM
 
Location: SW MO
23,593 posts, read 37,301,329 times
Reputation: 29336
Quote:
Originally Posted by wellyouknow View Post
I've never been a state employee, so I don't know how it works, but isn't it unfair that state employees are *entitled* to a pension just by the virtue of being hired on the tax dollars by the sate, whereas the majority of the taxpaying population (which pays for those state employee pensions) being employed by private firms must fend for themselves with 401Ks and IRAs private retirement plans which are mostly a stock gamble?

I would abolish these state guaranteed pensions altogether and have the state employed folks have to do what every other employee has to - 401K, IRA, private retirement funds... WITH THE SAID EMPLOYEE HAVING TO CONTRIBUTE THEIR OWN, OFTEN AS HIGH AS 100%, PORTION (when the firm doesn't do the matching).
It's not and never has been an issue of "fairness." The benefits make government service attractive to many since the pay is generally mediocre at best. Now that job security is fleeting in civil service and pay is frozen and/or decreased, benefits become even more of an incentive. Remember, it's a choice to go into and persevere in a career field that can, in many other ways, be quite thankless.

Please remember that state employees are also tax payers and contribute to their pensions and other benefits as well so they are not just getting. They're giving too; in a sense, giving twice -- once through direct contributions and premiums and once again through their taxes.

But the bottom line is still the choice issue. If it's all so good then why hasn't everyone tried it? By the way, retirement formulas have been cut back for future employees and I'm sure that's just the start of changes that will be made over time, unless, of course, Democrats in the hip pockets of labor unions continue to control both houses of the Legislature as well as gain control the Governor's Office as seems likely. But that a whole other subject.

For purposes of truth in advertising, my wife reluctantly entered state service because she was a single mother of two whose former husband was a deadbeat and paid no support for their daughters. I entered state service because I had five children to support on a single income. Both of us wanted the benefits for our children (medical, dental, etc.) which were probably more of an incentive than the pay but at least in our time, the pay was fairly secure.
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