"Californians hold positive views of immigrants; most oppose deportation" (Los Angeles: living in, low cost)
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Why, overwhelmingly, this dichotomy of response/survey?
Political correctness! In a poll, responders are anonymous. On C-D they have "names" as identifiers. Not saying this is the case but is it possible that those who openly support illegal immigration don't want to "come out" in support for it lest there be some blow-back while those who are otherwise "liberal" but disagree with it don't want to lose credibility with other liberals on-site by admitting it openly?
True conservatives generally don't care who knows it. Is that hubris or the power of their convictions? Not for me to say since I'm neither fish nor foul politically.
Ah! ... well, your response would indicate a conservative view, I'd say ... and, without me passing any judgment on your point of view, let me say your response is, in any event, exactly a case in point of what intrigues me: first comment on the survey on this C-D California Forum is conservative ... yet the State at large apparently holds an overwhelming liberal position. Note that the survey reports strongly favorable majority support for illegals, as well as legal immigrants.
So standing up for the Rule of Law is a conservative view? Um, ok.
Immigration is used synonymously with illegal immigration. The two are equated. That's highly problematic because the former actually involves a process involving the Customs depart ment to screen who's coming into this country- does the individual have a criminal background?- and Naturalization department to acclimate those people to living in this country.
The latter involves just anyone entering the country, no matter what their background or how ignorant they are.
That's problematic because the rest of use find ourselves living among people who came here illegally, don't speak English, don't pay taxes and who use our hospitals and public schools all while demanding that we give them those services in their native language.
It's unsurprising that the biggest supporters of illegal immigrants are those who culturally identify with them. That's a bias if there ever was one.
This is one thing that bothers me about the whole "illegal" immigration debate. I've known LEGAL residents who don't speak English. I've known ILLEGAL residents who speak perfect English.
Speaking English has absolutely nothing to do with the debate.
The problem with illegal immigration is that they strain our resources. If they weren't having anchor babies and going on welfare, then the question of legalization would be more like that of marijuana (i.e., why keep something illegal that's not a burden?) Illegal immigrants, primarily from Mexico, are a BURDEN. They have no skills and do nothing but suck the life out of everyone around them!
I am tired of feeling like a foreigner in my own country! MEXICANS GO HOME!!!
Political correctness! In a poll, responders are anonymous. On C-D they have "names" as identifiers. Not saying this is the case but is it possible that those who openly support illegal immigration don't want to "come out" in support for it lest there be some blow-back while those who are otherwise "liberal" but disagree with it don't want to lose credibility with other liberals on-site by admitting it openly?
True conservatives generally don't care who knows it. Is that hubris or the power of their convictions? Not for me to say since I'm neither fish nor foul politically.
Just some random thoughts.
A qualified "Perhaps", to your random thoughts ... the psychology fits homo-sapian, all right ... but the 'anonymity' part theoretically cancels the tendency for 'political correctness'. On the other hand, people who are highly concerned with political correctness probably have a hard-ish time even being honest with themselves.
As for your comment on true conservatives not caring what others think: hahahahahaha well mentioned ... Hubris or power of convictions? Ummm, those are kissing cousins in my experience and goes for both sides anyway.
But I am pretty well drawn to the conclusion that this Forum, for whatever reason, by whatever mechanism, draws out more conservatives than liberals. Without being either, myself, I still consider this a bit unfortunate as the point of political discourse is to hash out points of view legitimately. But wahtevah.
I never participated in open political discussion prior to this Forum -- in all my ancient years ... oh, except once: in 1980 (Carter vs. Reagan) I posted a sticker on my truck bumper that read: "Don't vote, it only encourages them!" Now I am intrigued by the tete a tete on the California Forum, so I'll probably stick around awhile yet poking the issues with my completely odd points of view that generally run Way outside the normal lines of thought.
The problem with illegal immigration is that they strain our resources. If they weren't having anchor babies and going on welfare, then the question of legalization would be more like that of marijuana (i.e., why keep something illegal that's not a burden?) Illegal immigrants, primarily from Mexico, are a BURDEN. They have no skills and do nothing but suck the life out of everyone around them!
I am tired of feeling like a foreigner in my own country! MEXICANS GO HOME!!!
Well, still without judging the right or wrong of it, I would nevertheless ponder whether the ability to work like dogs in the fields and gardens and construction labor pool for lousy pay (and sending half of which back to family south of the border) whilst being openly scorned at every turn might actually qualify as a skill. I know I couldn't do it (at least without wringing someone's neck before long).
A qualified "Perhaps", to your random thoughts ... the psychology fits homo-sapian, all right ... but the 'anonymity' part theoretically cancels the tendency for 'political correctness'. On the other hand, people who are highly concerned with political correctness probably have a hard-ish time even being honest with themselves.
As for your comment on true conservatives not caring what others think: hahahahahaha well mentioned ... Hubris or power of convictions? Ummm, those are kissing cousins in my experience and goes for both sides anyway.
But I am pretty well drawn to the conclusion that this Forum, for whatever reason, by whatever mechanism, draws out more conservatives than liberals. Without being either, myself, I still consider this a bit unfortunate as the point of political discourse is to hash out points of view legitimately. But wahtevah.
I never participated in open political discussion prior to this Forum -- in all my ancient years ... oh, except once: in 1980 (Carter vs. Reagan) I posted a sticker on my truck bumper that read: "Don't vote, it only encourages them!" Now I am intrigued by the tete a tete on the California Forum, so I'll probably stick around awhile yet poking the issues with my completely odd points of view that generally run Way outside the normal lines of thought.
One reason might be that this website is in English, not Spanish. Ask the question "¿Aprueba usted el ancla y el bienestar de los bebés ilimitado?" and you will get a much more "liberal" response.
This is one thing that bothers me about the whole "illegal" immigration debate. I've known LEGAL residents who don't speak English. I've known ILLEGAL residents who speak perfect English.
Speaking English has absolutely nothing to do with the debate.
Sure a person can be a legal resident, though usually not a naturalized citizen, and not speak English.
I think you're reaching with that "perfect English" assertion, though.
What I think you deliberately overlooked is my generalization that most illegal aliens don't speak English. Before you excite yourself, yes, it's a generalization. I don't have volumes of studies by which to convince you of its plausibility though that wouldn't change your feelings on the matter, anyway.
Last, the claim "Speaking English has absolutely nothing to do with the debate" is your opinion, which not everyone will share.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo
Well, still without judging the right or wrong of it, I would nevertheless ponder whether the ability to work like dogs in the fields and gardens and construction labor pool for lousy pay (and sending half of which back to family south of the border) whilst being openly scorned at every turn might actually qualify as a skill. I know I couldn't do it (at least without wringing someone's neck before long).
It's really wonderful that they send their money outside of the United States, rather than stimulating the economy here. We don't want that, especially now.
As for "scorned at every turn", consider that illegal immigrants get an enormous amount of sympathy.
Hint- there's even a hyperlinked study at the first post in this thread.
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... the psychology fits homo-sapian, all right ... but the 'anonymity' part theoretically cancels the tendency for 'political correctness'. On the other hand, people who are highly concerned with political correctness probably have a hard-ish time even being honest with themselves.
and goes for both sides anyway.
