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Solutions have been put forward; not only by the right, but the left too. Unions have agreed, overwhelmingly, across the board, to pay more into their retirements, increase retirement age, two tier systems, etc.
However, for certain people, its not enough. They want it all. See, they don't get a pension and since the stock market crash, all they care about is their 401K. And since they aren't getting what they want, how dare some low life public employee get more then them.
Its called pure jealously.
My 401k returns : 1 Year 35.09% ..
Then again, my employer gives me the ability to self manage it via a brokerage account.. Not some slimeball on wallstreet.
I'm perfectly happy with managing my retirement.. you let some else.. well, hey .. don't be surprised if promises get broken. As a tax payer I sure as hell didn't agree to guarantee someone a Cadillac retirement regardless of market performance or regardless of a fund manager mismanaging the fund. Only an idiot politician would agree to such foolishness at the expectations that tax payers cover shortfalls for votes.. In my life, I don't elect some clown to represent me and my views and pray for some fixed term that they do what I say. When I am held accountable for my actions its because I perpetuated them .. Not some collective group of idiots who are around me...
What to start holding voters more accountable? Start making the so called politicians who are 'supposed' to represent them more accountable.. Let me opt out of spending programs I don't agree with.. X wants Y .. let their silly behinds sign up for paying for it.
But things aren't that way, and wont be that way at least here.. So, at least I am not forced to live some place I don't agree with.. Vote w/ your feet and $$$ IMO.. strongest political message you can ever make.
How is this a public union problem/fault? Who allowed them these benefits? YOU. YOU did. Look in the mirror and blame yourselves.
Everyone constantly bashes public employees. However, there are two sides to the coin. Who signed those contracts? TWO PEOPLE did. Who elected the persons who signed those contracts? YOU DID. Not once, but over and over again.
YOU all elected Moonbeam, the man who allowed collective bargaining to begin with. With his promises of "pension reform." I told you then, and I'll say it again: Moonbeam himself is a beneficiary of the pension plan and so are all of the legislature, etc. ALL state employees and if you think they are going to shoot themselves in the foot, I have beach front property in Arizona to sell you.
YOU people are to blame for this. NO ONE cared 20+ years ago. In fact, just the opposite. When it went to public ballots to be voted on, the PEOPLE voted yes.
Look at the last jobs reports. 39 thousand public employees laid off. That is what the people wanted. Less public jobs, less pensions, etc. Well, look at what that did to the economy? Now, those public employees, are getting unemployment, welfare, and all sorts of tax payer entitlements. Not only that, but when they reach whatever age they negotiated in their contracts, they will STILL get those fat "pensions" you all are jealous of.
The ultimate problem is not that the legislators benefit from public worker benefits and they vote in their self interests. The problem is that politicians pander to the unions to get votes. The politicians legislate these benefits, supported by a million public workers. The public workers vote for these legislators, closing the loop, and perpetuating the power play.
I bet it costs less to pay severance benefits than salaries.
The cycle must be broken. It may be painful to do so - but it is even more painful to let it continue.
The ultimate problem is not that the legislators benefit from public worker benefits and they vote in their self interests. The problem is that politicians pander to the unions to get votes. The politicians legislate these benefits, supported by a million public workers. The public workers vote for these legislators, closing the loop, and perpetuating the power play.
I bet it costs less to pay severance benefits than salaries.
The cycle must be broken. It may be painful to do so - but it is even more painful to let it continue.
"The cycle must be broken." Yes, I TOTALLY agree and does many people in the public employee realm. NO ONE, that I know of, disagrees. That is my point and has been my point. We are ALL voting for pay cuts, benefit cuts, and pension reform. Just look around, I've posted the three LARGEST police departments in the Bay Area. ALL have agred to the above.
I've posted the police dept I work for. We ALL voted for a 24% pay cut. Read that again: 24% pay cut. That is a 2 thousand dollar a month pay cut, to save 24 police officer jobs. 2K a month. Show me ANYWHERE, in the "private sector" people voted for such a pay cut? You won't find it.
People want to compare the private sector to the public. Well, in the private sector, the CEO just lays people off. He doesn't go to you and ask you take a pay cut, so he doesn't have too. YOU as a citizen say: Take a pay cut. Take a benefit cut. ALL, so I can have my government services, without any delay, and I don't have to pay anything.
People all across this state are doing just that. And you? Nope. Not me. I aint paying a dime more and then, I'll blame the public employees. Its THEIR fault.
Break the cycle? Public employees are trying to help. That isn't good enough of for many people. They asked we do X. Well, we did it. They want more, because they are jealous and they don't get we do.
"The cycle must be broken." Yes, I TOTALLY agree and does many people in the public employee realm. NO ONE, that I know of, disagrees. That is my point and has been my point. We are ALL voting for pay cuts, benefit cuts, and pension reform. Just look around, I've posted the three LARGEST police departments in the Bay Area. ALL have agred to the above.
I've posted the police dept I work for. We ALL voted for a 24% pay cut. Read that again: 24% pay cut. That is a 2 thousand dollar a month pay cut, to save 24 police officer jobs. 2K a month. Show me ANYWHERE, in the "private sector" people voted for such a pay cut? You won't find it.
People want to compare the private sector to the public. Well, in the private sector, the CEO just lays people off. He doesn't go to you and ask you take a pay cut, so he doesn't have too. YOU as a citizen say: Take a pay cut. Take a benefit cut. ALL, so I can have my government services, without any delay, and I don't have to pay anything.
People all across this state are doing just that. And you? Nope. Not me. I aint paying a dime more and then, I'll blame the public employees. Its THEIR fault.
Break the cycle? Public employees are trying to help. That isn't good enough of for many people. They asked we do X. Well, we did it. They want more, because they are jealous and they don't get we do.
People are taking major pay cuts all over. People are getting laid off by the thousands in California. People who were making six figure money are now taking multiple minimum wage jobs just to survive. People are having their unemployment compensation expire and becoming homeless. These are all facts and it's getting worse. As this thread started out, the economy is tanking ... and quickly. Federal, state and local municipalities don't have enough money to last the new fiscal year that just started and no one is going to bail them out. At some point in the near future the public employees will see dramatic cuts and they or the unions won't have any say so in it. These are facts ... this is reality.
I enjoy how it took a massive recession, damn near depression for people to realize how messed up things have been. Gray Davis warned us things are gonna hit the fan back in 2001 but no one wanted to listen to him because it was "recall" mania. A decade later, what's changed...nothing.
Gotta be foolish to think any Democrat or Republican can make serious change. The entire system is wrong and needs to be re-hauled. Hell, Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize one year and the following year he's sending more troops overseas.
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