California's Demise Greatly Exaggerated (?) -- editorial -- (San Jose, Sacramento: fit in, schools)
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In 1945 US deficit was 120% of GDP, cured within a few years, by a Democratic Administration.
Darned pesky facts again.
This is not an apples to apples comparison. The Federal Government did not have huge Social Security & Medicare/Medicaid obligations back during World War 2. We subsequently had a big Baby Boom after WW2 that helped the population and economoy expand so that we could more easily absorb and roll over the debt.
We don't have a baby boom right now, but we do have to pay for the retirement and medical care of all those Baby Boomers who were born after the war....and it's going to be very expensive, especially with our inefficient and greedy medical system, combined with a general public who think taking expensive pills for the rest of their lives is the fix for all that ails them.
Now then, because the agricultural producers either can't or aren't willing to pay true living wages for the work, the general population won't / can't do the labor: and it is left to the desperate ... and the desperate must, necessarily, live an 'underground' cultural lifestyle to survive. The result of which is welfare to pick up the difference: which comes out of everybody's pocket in California -- and across the country -- which is, in effect, subsidization of the agriculture to keep prices artificially low at market. That so many non-productive illegals also tag-along is a consequence of the dynamic.
Bottom line is: pay one way -- or pay the other.
This is all very well said.
I personally, would rather not have illegal labor working in the ag industry and pay more for our produce, for philosophical, political, economic, and quality of life reasons.
I also think they'd find other ways to mechanize the industry if wages went up. As long as they have peasant labor (as you say), they don't look for ways to invest in new technology/automation.
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,404 posts, read 2,809,774 times
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This is not an apples to apples comparison.
I guess my problem here was that I expected more than a literal reading. Now, we have a 1% or at worst case 1.5% of GDP, deficit, at the end of WW2, we had a 120% of GDP deficit. A bit of reflective thinking should show a person, that we have a deficit that is a political problem, not an economic problem.
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The Federal Government did not have huge Social Security & Medicare/Medicaid obligations back during World War 2. We subsequently had a big Baby Boom after WW2 that helped the population and economoy expand so that we could more easily absorb and roll over the debt.
Not debt, deficit,
the deficit was gone in 5 years or 6 years, long before the babies had much economic impact except to Gerber.
Now, the state closed a 60 billion dollar deficit in 2009, we are now looking at a deficit half that.
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also think they'd find other ways to mechanize the industry if wages went up.
With the unionization of the fields in the 1970's Growers worked with UC Davis to mechanize the fields. By 1985 nearly everything that could be mechanized was, very little mechanization has happened since. The crops that are hand harvested today pretty much, must be hand harvested, and yes some one has invented a machine that will do X, but, if it is not used, it does a crap job, have you looked at a machine harvested grape or grape crop? As anyone who has looked at labor vs machine over the last two hundred years, mechanization is cheaper, and the growers have mechanized everything that can be mechanized, with current technology.
Fields also need tending in various ways such as weeding, you can run a plow down the row but it won't get the weeds next to the plants, you need a bunch of people with hoes. Our firm always made the workers use short handled hoes, when Governor Pat Brown was able to get short handled hoes outlawed, my old man was highly annoyed, as he said the workers could not do a good job with a long handled hoe. Being family, we could legally use the short handled hoes, which we did, which is why I joined the Navy the day I graduated high school.
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As long as they have peasant labor (as you say), they don't look for ways to invest in new technology/automation
You did not read my post, wages in the fields are comparable to paramedics and Federal Wildland Firefighters, and much more in piecework, for those that can handle it. Now, the market drives wages, not some "grower cartel" If you approve of capitalism you approve of the market driving wages, now if you are one of them socialists, mebbe you want the government to step in.
Let me give you a real life harvest scenario, through out the central coastal farming regions, millions of dollars worth of crops are ripening, right now no tractor or other machine can move in the fields due to the deep mud from the rain. The crops must be harvested by hand, even machine harvestable crops. To do that you need a trained and experience crew willing to slop in the mud. You won't find any teenage welfare mothers on dope out there, you will find experienced trained men and women, 80% of whom are undocumented.
I'm amused ... been waiting a few days for someone on this Forum to pick up on the Op-Ed from the LA Times, Dec. 20th ... and not a peep. Did no one see it but me? Or are the statistics not favorable for argument against the state of the State? Surely some of the disappointed citizens (and ex-patriots) posting here can creatively refute much of this? Or is California going to remain a great -- perhaps the greatest -- state after all?
only time will tell what is ahead for Ca, but my guess and that is all it is: they have a long road to recovery ahead of them.
Remember, an editorial is just that, an opinion.
Nita
The editorial is opinion -- but citing some very revealing statistics and realities as foundation for its premise. If the statistics are false, or falsely applied, I'd be curious to read about that. But there is a strong story told in the piece -- as contrasted to the kind of pure personal opinion that California is going into the shi**er, as is often submitted without foundational argument.
I do not hold that anyplace with the natural strengths of California will ever go deeply or completely into the crapper. There are ups and downs, but not total demise in the picture for the Golden State. Its current problems are not rooted in politics or illegal immigration or "nannystate welfare" or other runaway spending. All those problems exist and demand constant attention and correction and adjustments. But the present state of the State is rooted in the same disaster as the rest of the suffering of the nation, and much of the world: uncontrolled, runaway, greed in the real estate, banking, and investment industries. This is in brutal correction -- in part .. at least real estate valuations are, and the foolish and false application of vacuous equities to thoughtless consumerism.
The resources and assets of California are exceedingly strong and in demand. Contrast with a state such as Massachusetts, which, like California, has a huge piece of the venture capital market in play -- but which state does not have significant agriculture, nor mining, nor forestry, nor nor nor ... Massachusetts is thriving on manufacturing, which can move anywhere at a whim, and on its Brain Trust, which can also be relocated.
The process of life is constant change and adjustment and correction ... California needs all that as do all places, all the time ... it is a struggle ... but few places have the resources and foundations and tools for meeting the challenges that California has.
Consider this chamisa, if we stopped illegal immigration, and sent all the illegals back home, California's agricultural business, the nation's most productive, would crash, Salinas, Santa Maria, Oxnard, and many Central Valley and Imperial Valley towns would become ghost towns. The economic disaster would affect far more than the $40,000,000,000 crop value.
There is no way you can possibly quantify that. Speaking of salvia smokers. LMAO.
I knew it all along that the problems facing this state were overexagerrated. California does have its problems but the media and of course the bashers make it seem much worst when in reality it isnt that bad. California is one of those states that keeps chugging along even when times are rough and despite all the negative things being said about it by others,I will always love California.
I knew it all along that the problems facing this state were overexagerrated. California does have its problems but the media and of course the bashers make it seem much worst when in reality it isnt that bad. California is one of those states that keeps chugging along even when times are rough and despite all the negative things being said about it by others,I will always love California.
Its not California bashing, it California reality.
I have live in California all my life but I live in reality ... always have.
California is not going away, its just heading into tough times. It won't get better with status quo liberal politics. If the liberals don't change course than it will get much worse but that won't happen. Its sink of swim time and Jerry is up to bat.
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Surely some of the disappointed citizens (and ex-patriots) posting here can creatively refute much of this? Or is California going to remain a great -- perhaps the greatest -- state after all?
