U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > California
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-07-2011, 07:05 PM
 
Location: Hills & Hollers of the Aux Arcs
19,001 posts, read 16,222,012 times
Reputation: 16938

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
Why thank you.

Tough to figure out why all the bellyaching about pensions. It is interesting that the groups the uninformed belly ache the most about are teachers, police, and correctional officers, all of whom deserve a decent retirement to make up for the crap they put up with for so long.
I'll give you, and them, that. I think there's a lot of understandable envy and there have been the abuses of "spiking" and "disability" claims, as well as highly paid workers "retiring" with huge pensions and coming right back to work as contractors and retired annuitants (aka: Retarded Irritants). Those **** me off too so I don't blame the tax payers a bit. Some just need to paint with a less broad brush!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-07-2011, 08:08 PM
 
5,375 posts, read 7,039,961 times
Reputation: 2768
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjnative View Post
It is partly Curmudgeon's fault, however infintesimal his apportion of fault may be. He chose to work for the state and he chose to be part of the union. Even if the former necessitates the latter, it was consequently his choice to be part of the latter.

Re the rest of your post, you conveniently forget the responsibility of the Union bosses, negotiators, etc. who played hardball with the State.

Instead of recognizing this, you put all the blame on the politicians and their electing voters.

Somehow that doesn't seem very realistic to me or, dare I say, fair.
You're blaming people who got on the gravy train even though it's not their train, they didn't have anything to do with the conductor, and didn't have anything to do with the train owners.

What part of my post didn't you understand? The fault is with the voters who blindly elected officials who in turn gave the public employee unions free rein to rape California's economy and government obligations. You voted for these jerkos (assuming you're in the majority, I didn't vote for them myself). The elected officials are responsible too, they knew where this was going, they knew this would come to a head some day. They knew they'd be out of office and somebody else would have to pay the piper.

I would have sucked up one of those public jobs myself except that I realized only in the last 2-3 years the reality of the situation. One of my best friends is a retired LA DWP employee. He was in a craft position (technician), I was in a professional position in private industry (design engineer). My buddy is getting about 4x the retirement benefits that I'm receiving, and he almost matched me every year in terms of earnings. He got a pension, I got a 401k. Currently my 401k is being raped by Blue Cross. My buddy got health benefits included in his retirement.

I was a fool. I too should have raped California. I'm leaving just because I don't want to be raped now in terms of stratospheric increases in taxes. I'm sure that's coming soon. Enjoy it. I'll be enjoying it from out of state myself.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-07-2011, 08:33 PM
 
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 3,420,016 times
Reputation: 2622
Quote:
I'll be enjoying it from out of state myself.
Soon?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-07-2011, 10:00 PM
 
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
7,326 posts, read 4,017,836 times
Reputation: 4344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
LOL! Nice shot across the bow, Surly. If I weren't such a nice guy I'd say something like, "Your response typifies the "fruits and nuts" portion of your location." But I am so I won't.

No, I'm not representative of the public employees. Most stay in line staff status throughout their careers and lack either the desire or the skills/ability to seek higher positions. I was not so hampered and spent most of my state career in in supervision and management. As such, I was not represented by any collective bargaining groups/unions.

You're right. "Tax payers" have funded my retirement. Chief among them was me. Not only did I pay quite a bit in taxes but I also made rather significant monthly contributions to my pension fund every month for 25 years. You idealogues seem to conveniently forget or choose to ignore that simple truth. Pity.

By the way, I'm sure you'll be happy to know that my pension is anything but munificent. Sorry I can't asssure that I'm destitute but I'm comfortable and nothing more.

Oh, yeah. Is it alright with you if I also draw some Social Security? After all, I did pay into it for 45 years.
I'm certainly not questioning your "entitlements" (state, federal or otherwise). But hearing someone continually rail against their supposed "excesses", even as they so clearly benefit from them (and from out of state!), seems like much more than a bit "ironic"... actually the word that comes to mind is "hypocrisy".

And BTW, for someone who likes to "dish it out" around here so much, and is always so quick with the name-calling, you seem surprisingly "thin-skinned" whenever questioned your own-self (which alone puts you pretty solidly in the 'winger category)! And I suspect that the further ensconced you become there in "Hillbilly-landia", and the longer you're away from Cali's sophistication & relative civility, the more contentious you're gonna become. Or as they say around there, "bless your little heart"...!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-08-2011, 01:33 AM
 
Location: the illegal immigrant state
753 posts, read 843,978 times
Reputation: 968
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Having a bit of a challenge with comprehension there, Sport?

What part of, "I was management and not a union member or represented by them" are you having a hard time understanding?

What part of union "fair share" provisions which require employees to either join or pay a couple of dollars less than dues (and I do mean "a couple of dollars) if you're going to work are you unable to wrap your mind around?

Consequently, you're quite wrong, as usual.

Let me try to 'splain it to you in elementary grade terms even you might understand.

As both a supervisor and then a manager, I could not be a member of a union, nor could I pay dues or make fair share payments. I was on my own without any collective bargaining "benefits." Capiche?

Oops! I used at least one, five-syllable word. Sorry for the challenge.
I didn't misunderstand that you weren't part of the unions.

Rather, I didn't know because I usually don't read your posts, and why would I? Just read your own post and you'll understand why I barely read it myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
I wonder how often I will have to repeat this, before the joker who think retired state employees are skiing at Aspen.

The average retired state employee pension is less than $20,000 per year

Based on the amount of Bellyaching one would think that
1. Retired state employees drive Escalades, ski at Aspen and go to the beach at Tahiti
2. Some other people are really upset because they now realize they made some really bad career choices.
Averages don't tell us the whole story, and they don't get around the fact that state unionized employees get to retire at 55 yo.

If such an employee is really getting a $20k pension, that's probably all they deserve. Such an employee probably did the same undemanding, lower-level job for his whole career and kept it only because he was union-protected.

Had he been in private industry, he would've been laid off long before retirement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
...police, and correctional officers, all of whom deserve a decent retirement to make up for the crap they put up with for so long.
This is the entitlement mentality, having reared its ugly head- again.

"Decent" is an easily-abused word. What the entitled taxpayee feels is "decent" is different than what the taxpayers would feel is "decent".

What I find most interesting is that CA police and corrections officers likely put up with less **** given that most of the nation's most dangerous cities aren't in CA and those that are can barely retain officers. Oakland has long had to entice officers work there and without enticement, I doubt many would.

Her's the question, though- are the police and correctional officers in other dangerous cities, e.g. Camden, NJ or Detroit or St. Louis, retiring early with such large pensions?

If not, then CA's servants shouldn't be so overcompensated. If so, then those city's and state's taxpayers got overreached, too.

Last edited by sjnative; 01-08-2011 at 01:52 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-08-2011, 06:48 AM
 
Location: Hills & Hollers of the Aux Arcs
19,001 posts, read 16,222,012 times
Reputation: 16938
Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45 View Post
I'm certainly not questioning your "entitlements" (state, federal or otherwise). But hearing someone continually rail against their supposed "excesses", even as they so clearly benefit from them (and from out of state!), seems like much more than a bit "ironic"... actually the word that comes to mind is "hypocrisy".
I can understand that and it would fit if I had munificent retirement benefits, which I don't, or if I was double-dipping from the state trough, which I'm not. Neither negates the fact that there are and have been excesses. Guess I just wasn't clever enough to gain from them myself.

And BTW, for someone who likes to "dish it out" around here so much, and is always so quick with the name-calling, you seem surprisingly "thin-skinned" whenever questioned your own-self (which alone puts you pretty solidly in the 'winger category)! And I suspect that the further ensconced you become there in "Hillbilly-landia", and the longer you're away from Cali's sophistication & relative civility, the more contentious you're gonna become. Or as they say around there, "bless your little heart"...! [/quote]

It has nothing to do with the thickness of my skin. It has everything to do with your constant beating of the liberal drum. Being a moderate, your ranting and raving against Conservatives is only bothersome to me because much of it is patently ridiculous and beyond that, it's horribly redundant.

I'm not changing but thanks for the laugh to start my day. "California's sophistication and relative civility" indeed! And look where and what it's gotten the once golden state!

Have a lovely day!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-08-2011, 09:19 AM
 
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 3,420,016 times
Reputation: 2622
Quote:
Being a moderate, your ranting and raving against Conservatives is only bothersome to me because much of it is patently ridiculous and beyond that, it's horribly redundant.
Don't worry Mateo, he says the same thing about me
Curmudgeon, our problem with conservatives may have to do with the train wreck they have attempted to turn America into for the past 250 years.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-08-2011, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Hills & Hollers of the Aux Arcs
19,001 posts, read 16,222,012 times
Reputation: 16938
Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
Don't worry Mateo, he says the same thing about me
Curmudgeon, our problem with conservatives may have to do with the train wreck they have attempted to turn America into for the past 250 years.
If it's any help, my disdain for them doesn't go back that far but I'm no great fan of today's so-called "conservatives" any more than I am of most ideologies which I find usually over the top!

Oh, crap! There's that moderate approach again.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-08-2011, 09:43 AM
 
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 3,420,016 times
Reputation: 2622
Just for fun, care to guess my ideology?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-08-2011, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Hills & Hollers of the Aux Arcs
19,001 posts, read 16,222,012 times
Reputation: 16938
Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
Just for fun, care to guess my ideology?
Mixed bag!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2011 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > California

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top