Obama Care raising insurance rates in California- Thank's Barry (Nice: live, costs)

[NewToCA]

This has rapidly turned into a P&OC type of discussion, and if we don't want to discuss the California specific aspects of healthcare I can always just move it into that forum (good luck with that discussion...).

[Lovehound]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

Well sir, there's another point we do agree on: healthcare = utility ... I mentioned that in a previous post. Healthcare is so deeply critical to the nation's welfare, as well as to every individual's security and well-being, that this is another area of society that begs for serious regulation. Just as the utility companies have always had to conform to fair, equitable practices, so must healthcare. Utilities are monopolies due to the nature of their expensive and intrusive infrastructures ... healthcare is seen as a free-market profit business, but it is running amok as if a monopoly -- and is too critical to be unregulated.

Well Nullgeo I'd +rep you but 'Mudgie would beat me senseless!

It's too good a comparison. We have utilities because we all need them, can't do without them, the public infrastructure would fail if we didn't have them or couldn't afford them.

Again I enjoy that even we who are almost 180 degrees in opposition can find a few common grounds. I wish we could find a practical way to deliver essential health care to everybody. Perhaps we will some day, and we'll revere whoever delivered it as a national hero. I doubt it will be Obama.

Originally Posted by NewToCA

This has rapidly turned into a P&OC type of discussion, and if we don't want to discuss the California specific aspects of healthcare I can always just move it into that forum (good luck with that discussion...).

Please define P&OC.

[BluSpark]

Originally Posted by Lovehound

Please define P&OC.

I didn't get it at first either.

P & OC = Politics and Other Controversies.......Moderator language or jargon I guess.

[Lovehound]

Ohhhhh! Thanks! I don't speak Moderatorish.

I don't see how you could combine Obamacare + insurance rates and not get a political discussion. Invoking Obama automatically makes the discussion political. Whatever. I think this topic has run its course anyway.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Lovehound

Well Nullgeo I'd +rep you but 'Mudgie would beat me senseless!

It's too good a comparison. We have utilities because we all need them, can't do without them, the public infrastructure would fail if we didn't have them or couldn't afford them.

Again I enjoy that even we who are almost 180 degrees in opposition can find a few common grounds. I wish we could find a practical way to deliver essential health care to everybody. Perhaps we will some day, and we'll revere whoever delivered it as a national hero. I doubt it will be Obama.

Nah. Go ahead. It's a freebie. He actually makes sense. Imagine that.

As someone who worked in the policy areas of health and human services, I can't imagine a better goal. The trick is to not overly, financially penalize others while providing for the rest; key word "overly!"

[Lovehound]

It would be a big improvement if we had a law that everybody must be charged the same fee for the same service. For example, doctors commonly charge a different (higher rate) to patients who do not have insurance. A doctor might charge an insured patient $80 for an office visit, that's $20 copay plus $60 from the insurance company, but then charge an uninsured patient $120. That doesn't seem fair to me. Also, why should persons who work for (1) a large corporation, (2) a small business, (3) self employed, or (4) unemployed, have to pay different rates to get health insurance? Generally as you progress from #1 to #4 each pays more for insurance, once again charging the most to those who can least afford it. How about a little bit of fairness in rates for insurance and services? Doctors should have a set fee, those with insurance pay their copay and the insurance pays the rest, those without insurance pay the combined amount. Anybody should be able to purchase the same health insurance for the same fee irrespective of where they are employed or whether they are employed at all.

[Mathguy]

Originally Posted by Lovehound

That's something that makes me boiling mad too, our pharmaceutical (spelled correctly ) manufacturers selling drugs to us at full price and then selling the same drugs at a fraction in foreign countries.

Do you think they sell cheaper out of the goodness of their hearts?

Or, perhaps because foreign countries like Canada have a monopoly they are able to dictate what they will pay and thereby force the US consumers to pay for the R&D work?

Not saying who is right or wrong, but that's the situation.

[ZhugeLiang]

Originally Posted by Lovehound

Health care should be a utility. Which would you rather do without, health care or electricity/water?

Private industry isn't doing the job. So far they've shown only that they're good at rape and pillage.

That just isn't true and you know it. Medicare, Medicaid, MediCal (artificial below market rate health insurance), free healthcare for illegals, malpractice suits, being unable to purchase insurance from state to state (lack of competition), stupid people in general (hey, more happy meals for my chllin's), it's really a no-brainer as to why costs have skyrocketed and much of the reason is poor legislation.

Blaming the private sector is just plain foolish. There's no "ra[ing and pillaging" going on. You can't blame a company which employs people doing what it takes to survive. You don't like it? Then support ways to increase competition.

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Nah. Go ahead. It's a freebie. He actually makes sense. Imagine that.

As someone who worked in the policy areas of health and human services, I can't imagine a better goal. The trick is to not overly, financially penalize others while providing for the rest; key word "overly!"

Heh ... I have my moments ... as do even you, sir Mugwhump

And further, I repeat as said before: we all pay for each other['s sins] one way or another as we stumble through life [together]. And if there was ever any issue in which I personally accept that I have a share of another's burden, it would be in relieving the suffering of sickness and poor health. Humor mostly escapes me in that regard. I wish all the best in maintaining good health so our arguments can continue with vitality!

Now, for a nod to keeping this thread relevant to California (), you are all aware, I assume, of California's quality national ranking in the health of its citizens? Gallup poll:
Californians score high for well being - Healthy Living : The Orange County Register
Some interesting things to note specifically in this survey include, however, that the Golden State, 5th in [non]smoking habits, falls to 30th (!!) in emotional well being based on levels of happiness, worry and stress

... and most importantly (moderators take note how relevant this will be in continuing the discussion! ) for basic access to food, shelter and health care, California fell to 33.

Let the conversation rage on!

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by ZhugeLiang

...
Blaming the private sector is just plain foolish. There's no "ra[ing and pillaging" going on. You can't blame a company which employs people doing what it takes to survive. You don't like it? Then support ways to increase competition.

Actually, I can and do blame the private sector in this regard. They are ra]ing and pillaging in the most egregious of all ways: pain and suffering of our own. The profits garnered by the pharmaceutical companies and other mainstream, traditional, health care at the expense of human well being are nothing short of scandalous -- and exponentially exceed "doing what it takes to survive". Totally reprehensible. Health care is the biggest of all human fears, ultimately ... a fear that is preyed upon by a segment of humans who are sociopathic in their drive for personal gain with total disregard for others.