Are California's taxes too high or too low? (Fresno, Sacramento: how much, homes)

[yeahthatguy]

Assuming a salary of : $100,000

California
State income tax is $ 7,257
$40k car (registration fee %'age of cars value: $549.00/yr)
Sales tax : 9.25%.. Assume $14k spent a year : $1295 in taxes
Property Tax 1.25% .. House price $500k = $6250 property tax
Gas Tax : 18 cents .. Additional sales tax on gas : 6%

Florida (Picked because i know it well)
State income tax is $0
$40k car (registration fee (fixed): ~$80/yr)
Sales Tax : 6.5% .. Assume $14k spent a year . $910 in taxes
Property Tax .. (1.6-2%) Equiv California house : $100k .. Property tax : $1,600-$2,000
Gas Tax : 16 cents .. Additional sales tax on gas : 0%

There are lots of other odds and ends but you get the picture. So, what do you get for all this in California?

Having grown up in FL and lived in California long enough....
The schools aren't any better here K-12 if you live in the right neighborhood.
Transportation is sufficient in FL vs. California. The big factor is generally everyone can afford cars in FL whereas they can't and are forced to use public transportation in California.
Universities are a bit better in CA but I don't see much general difference coming from the students who graduate/don't graduate.

55.5% of California's 2011/2012 revenue comes from income tax. FL doesn't have one. The cost of property tax in FL is lower because property is cheaper.. Somehow w/o this big income tax, FL is fine. Somehow w/o all the taxes that CA has, FL is fine. Oh and the roads are tons better. As for tolls, I have driven many times from Orlando/South Florida.. South Florida to Gainesville w/o paying a single toll. If you want to ride on the best of roads w/ no traffic, you have the 'option' to drive on the toll road.


Giving $1k more in taxes wont kill me in California but what the hell gives the govt. the right to do it just because they can?


Florida has Tri-rail :
South Florida Regional Transportation Authority (SFRTA)


Is constructing light rail :


Again.. Somehow FL manages to do this w/o all the taxes. So what gives? I'll tell you :
> California has 1/3 of the country's welfare cases (and only 12% of the population)
* Thank the bleeding heart liberals for this. Leeches smell blood from them a mile away and have come here to feast.
> Bloated Govt.
> Overpaid govt. workers
> Illegal immigrants
> Inefficient govt.

No one wants to hear that hard truth but it is the truth.
And for those who want to rant about California's amazing geography/weather... I agree, It beats most states hands down. However, last time I checked, nature wasn't created via taxes. You're being screwed.
California's taxes are too high for what you get? You get to support people who can otherwise do for themselves. The subsidies serve to create local inflation which results in a higher cost of living. You make more only to pay more. Optimal strategy : live here for a while.. enjoy all of what CA has to offer. Stuff money away in tax shelters. When you want to start a family/buy a house, gtfo dodge.

I friend from FL recently visited for the first time in CA.. We had interesting convos.. one that I found interesting was his take (uninfluenced by me) on why people in California give so freely of their hard earned money :
"People here are so nice compared to FL.. So jovial, kind, and liberal........ But it is almost as if they are naive to the realities of life..... They probably relinquish soo much in taxes because they work around smart people all day.. you don't see idiots like you do in FL here often... So they probably feel, if given the chance, everyone will rise to succeed but that couldn't be further from the truth.... People take advantage of your naivety .. If given the chance, many will leech.. Seems like many do in California.. Probably why you have to work 10-12 hours a day".

[Vascodagama]

Originally Posted by loveautumn

For starters, look into fraud (welfare, SS, disability)...the list goes on. CA has the most liberal handouts of almost any other state.

and we have poured billions into the black hole called "education". Where is this money going?

We are paying for the excessive pensions, excessive pay and children of illegal aliens.

[OC Investor2]

Too high for the state to remain economically competitive.

Too low to pay for all of the gov't programs the people approved, especailly when they are being administered and run by a workforce that is bloated and overpaid.

[Surftown831]

@ yeahthatguy

Great post. That is definitely enlightening. Only two things I can rebut is that you said California higher education is not that much better than Floridas, when the UC system is one of if not the best state university system in the country. I believe every single UC is listed in the top 100 colleges in the nation. Florida has some good schools too, and Florida State is one of two "state" schools on the top 100 list (The other is Cal Poly). But the sheer number of ranked schools in California is impressive.

Also, you said a 500k house in CA would be 100K in Florida. That's not always true. If you compare houses in Santa Cruz with houses in some place like Ocala, yea. But you can easily flip the situation and compare a house in Fresno with a house in Miami and you'll see those same numbers reversed.

[NewToCA]

Yeahthatguy, I thought your comparison of California and Florida was interesting and informative, though I think your housing price comparison is a little bit off (I'd say a $500K home in CA today would be more like $250K in a comparable area in Florida, though both have high current foreclosure and short sale rates).

I don't necessarily agree with your causes for the difference, you'd need to also do a side by side comparison of state and local worker pay and benefits between the two states, and ratio of employees (both state and local) to the population.

But overall, I found your posting informative.

Thanks!

[yeahthatguy]

Originally Posted by UNLV09

@ yeahthatguy

Great post. That is definitely enlightening. Only two things I can rebut is that you said California higher education is not that much better than Floridas, when the UC system is one of if not the best state university system in the country. I believe every single UC is listed in the top 100 colleges in the nation. Florida has some good schools too, and Florida State is one of two "state" schools on the top 100 list (The other is Cal Poly). But the sheer number of ranked schools in California is impressive.

Also, you said a 500k house in CA would be 100K in Florida. That's not always true. If you compare houses in Santa Cruz with houses in some place like Ocala, yea. But you can easily flip the situation and compare a house in Fresno with a house in Miami and you'll see those same numbers reversed.

Thanks for the feedback. You will note that I carefully distinguished between K-12 and the higher education systems. You are right. California has some of the best higher ed schools in the nation. However, California's colleges don't receive much from the budget. The real issue is in K-12 expenditures... I went through the general public system (K-12) in FL .. AP/Honors and all that jazz and went to one of the top 3 Universities in America for my major... So, agreed, California's Higher Ed is rock solid. However, where the majority of money is spent (K-12), I hardly see the big difference in quality.

On the housing front, I know the real estate figures extensively in FL. There is about a 200-300k difference no matter what locale you pick.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Don9

We are paying for the excessive pensions, excessive pay and children of illegal aliens.

Originally Posted by OC Investor2

Too high for the state to remain economically competitive.

Too low to pay for all of the gov't programs the people approved, especailly when they are being administered and run by a workforce that is bloated and overpaid.

HEY! California and other public workers! Can ya feel the loooove?

Close the place down and listen to them squeel. It shouldn't take long.

[yeahthatguy]

Originally Posted by NewToCA

Yeahthatguy, I thought your comparison of California and Florida was interesting and informative, though I think your housing price comparison is a little bit off (I'd say a $500K home in CA today would be more like $250K in a comparable area in Florida, though both have high current foreclosure and short sale rates).

I don't necessarily agree with your causes for the difference, you'd need to also do a side by side comparison of state and local worker pay and benefits between the two states, and ratio of employees (both state and local) to the population.

But overall, I found your posting informative.

Thanks!

Thanks and agreed on the price differential (in the general case). For Engineering, the jobs are in Orlando. For California they are in NorCal (SanJose). Comparing Orlando neighborhoods to Bay Area, I found several cases of a $500k -> $100k difference. $500k gets you a 2/1.5 townhouse built in the 80s in California.. $100k gets you an equivalent newer built in orlando.

[KC6ZLV]

Originally Posted by yeahthatguy

Thanks and agreed on the price differential (in the general case). For Engineering, the jobs are in Orlando. For California they are in NorCal (SanJose). Comparing Orlando neighborhoods to Bay Area, I found several cases of a $500k -> $100k difference. $500k gets you a 2/1.5 townhouse built in the 80s in California.. $100k gets you an equivalent newer built in orlando.

You can buy a 2/1.5 bath in Sacramento for about $125K It would be around $100K in Fresno, and 90K in Kern, Chico and Redding.

[Pretzelogik]

The more they tax and spend the better your life will be.