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Old 02-23-2011, 01:06 AM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
9,876 posts, read 6,635,464 times
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Well, looks like Governor Walker's hardline stance is isolating himself, not just in WI, where he is rapidly losing support, but elsewhere. Even Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels and Florida Rick Scott, neither of them considered worker-friendly, have backed away from positions supporting gutting collective bargaining.

The unions have agreed to concessions yet Walker has stuck to his guns...which seems to indicate that it's not about the money, but an ideological fight.

 
Old 02-23-2011, 06:31 AM
 
5,113 posts, read 4,961,526 times
Reputation: 1732
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverkris View Post
Well, looks like Governor Walker's hardline stance is isolating himself, not just in WI, where he is rapidly losing support, but elsewhere. Even Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels and Florida Rick Scott, neither of them considered worker-friendly, have backed away from positions supporting gutting collective bargaining.

The unions have agreed to concessions yet Walker has stuck to his guns...which seems to indicate that it's not about the money, but an ideological fight.
Gov Walker is gaining support in WI and throughout the country. There are several other states going down the same path. It's the unions that are losing support across the country.

48% Back GOP Governor in Wisconsin Spat, 38% Side With Unions
 
Old 02-23-2011, 06:52 AM
 
7,150 posts, read 8,814,043 times
Reputation: 3806
"The concept of upward mobility is collapsing ... we're all working class now.

The rights of union-organized public employees matter to all citizens. They matter because they set a standard of fair wages and benefits that the private sector must attempt to duplicate if it is going to compete for the most talented and dependable workers.


"Tea partyers" will tell you this goes against a free market system. But show me one American business that has not been developed partly through government investment in the economic infrastructure of the nation. Any business that uses the post office, a telephone, public libraries, the Internet or the interstate highway system in any way is government subsidized. Any business that hires workers who went to state universities on Pell grants and student loans is government subsidized. Any business that has the peace to conduct its commerce in safety thanks to our military, our police officers and our firefighters is also government subsidized.


We do not have a free market. We have American-style capitalism ... has always — at its best — sought to create opportunities for upward mobility and class equality, from the GI Bill to the Clean Water Act. That is the legacy that the protesters in Wisconsin are defending, and that is why so many workers are going to
Madison to join them. It is the most patriotic display of citizenship we've seen in our country in many, many years."

Wisconsin unions: We're all working class now - latimes.com
 
Old 02-23-2011, 07:01 AM
 
7,150 posts, read 8,814,043 times
Reputation: 3806
Default $46 mill. potential cost of Wisc. union busting

"Wisconsin received $74 million in federal transit funds this fiscal year. Of that, $46.6 million would be put at risk should the collective-bargaining bill come to pass -- in the process creating an even more difficult fiscal situation than the one that, ostensibly, compelled Walker to push the legislation in the first place.

"The governor is certainly aware of this. "


Gov. Walker Informed That Bill Targeting Unions May Cost State $46 Million In Federal Funds
 
Old 02-23-2011, 07:09 AM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 31,524,402 times
Reputation: 29082
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
[i]The rights of union-organized public employees matter to all citizens. They matter because they set a standard of fair wages and benefits that the private sector must attempt to duplicate if it is going to compete for the most talented and dependable workers.
Interestingly enough, before Jerry Brown sold-out the public employees to the unions, annual COLAs were regular and more generous than they have been at anytime since. The state Department of Personnel Administration handled pay and benefit issues and did a much more even and better job than collective bargaining.

Unions brought with them hiring and pay freezes, furloughs, mediocre and inconsistent raises for the masses (non-safety employees) coupled with ever-increasing dues, even when there were no corresponding and off-setting COLAs. They've also contributed, significantly, to the fiscal woes of states, counties and municipalities.

Being in management, I was non-represented yet the Democrats, in their infinite wisdom, keyed our pay and benefits to whatever the unions received for rank-and-file employees, if we received anything at all. Fairly recently, rank-and-file went for about three and a half years without a COLA yet we managers not only received no COLA for seven years but also suffered some take-backs in benefits, including modest (up to $100 a month) matching funds for our 401ks.

Needless to say, I am not fond of the public employee unions and find them self-serving and of little benefit for the most part.
 
Old 02-23-2011, 07:19 AM
 
7,150 posts, read 8,814,043 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Interestingly enough, before Jerry Brown sold-out the public employees to the unions, annual COLAs were regular and more generous than they have been at anytime since. The state Department of Personnel Administration handled pay and benefit issues and did a much more even and better job than collective bargaining.

Unions brought with them hiring and pay freezes, furloughs, mediocre and inconsistent raises for the masses (non-safety employees) coupled with ever-increasing dues, even when there were no corresponding and off-setting COLAs. They've also contributed, significantly, to the fiscal woes of states, counties and municipalities.

Being in management, I was non-represented yet the Democrats, in their infinite wisdom, keyed our pay and benefits to whatever the unions received for rank-and-file employees, if we received anything at all. Fairly recently, rank-and-file went for about three and a half years without a COLA yet we managers not only received no COLA for seven years but also suffered some take-backs in benefits, including modest (up to $100 a month) matching funds for our 401ks.

Needless to say, I am not fond of the public employee unions and find them self-serving and of little benefit for the most part.
Fair enough to point out, Chief ... but what I am defending isn't the current management -- or mis-management -- of public unions ... what I am defending is the very principle of collective bargaining as a check and balance. The overwhelming power of the overwhelmingly wealthy requires a balancing opposition -- both privately and publicly. Read my words: our system, our very way of life in America, cannot exist without the wealthy elite -- nor can it exist without controlling forces to the wealthy elite. Neither the elite nor the unions are a particularly savory bunch. Neither have the true interests of the broadest base at heart. But we cease to be a free society without the efforts of both.
 
Old 02-23-2011, 07:39 AM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 31,524,402 times
Reputation: 29082
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Fair enough to point out, Chief ... but what I am defending isn't the current management -- or mis-management -- of public unions ... what I am defending is the very principle of collective bargaining as a check and balance. The overwhelming power of the overwhelmingly wealthy requires a balancing opposition -- both privately and publicly. Read my words: our system, our very way of life in America, cannot exist without the wealthy elite -- nor can it exist without controlling forces to the wealthy elite. Neither the elite nor the unions are a particularly savory bunch. Neither have the true interests of the broadest base at heart. But we cease to be a free society without the efforts of both.
No argument here. Over the years I've finally had to reconcile myself to the fact that the good of the people and the good of the country are not high priorities for either politicians or the denizens of the various governing boards of corporate interests. They are every bit as self-serving and avaricious as are the heads of labor unions. I have scant regard for any of them. Given free reign they would ensure there would be only two classes in this country - serfs and their masters. The middle class is slowing but surely evaporating and that's by design. It's not a happy thing to observe and know of.
 
Old 02-23-2011, 09:40 AM
 
25,630 posts, read 30,477,872 times
Reputation: 23112
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Hey Dawg -- pretty good find, have to say But no squirrel pictures? Just Governor Walker doing his best imitation ...

Anyway ... the content of your citation pieces seems pretty good ... and demonstrates the human propensity for contortion ... both sides have taken liberties with the facts ... not sure that one case is worse than the other, though. Technically Maddow and the libs didn't lie -- but the historical reality of non-budget expenditures is, well, a reality too ... thus it is sorta also fair for Walker to claim the $137 million deficit -- uh, sorta.

On the other paw (we're still talking squirrels here, you know), Guvnor hisself is playing tricks with the legislation that WILL cost the $140 million -- and which expenditures will favor the already rich elite -- just in the next budget cycle (and which solution is still not accounted for).

On the third paw, Walker can sorta get away with that because he actually knows the pension plans aren't in danger -- in spite of his inferences otherwise.

So, after reading the articles and links, I am left wondering what's in the fourth paw ... as Bullwinkle used to say: "See! Nothin' up my sleeve!"

Bottom line: Walker is still trying to bust the union out of political motives -- and removing the unions will leave an unbalanced field of influence that favors the right to the severe detriment of a balanced quality of life for the middle class. They're all a**holes, both sides ... but without both sides sh8tting on each other, the working middle class is the one under the biggest pile of stink.

That is the beauty of statistics they can be bent and molded for use by anyone trying to protect or gain power over those who are ignorant of their proper application. My statistics professor in college had a unit on the politics of statistics and their use to control the masses throughout human history.

In the end this shake out is good for our society and the so called middle class. Its gonna get worse before it gets better.

Oh yeah and those mysteriously disappearing squirrels are on the run after they found out I have a .22lr with their name on it. LMAO
 
Old 02-23-2011, 10:05 AM
 
7,150 posts, read 8,814,043 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldogdad View Post
... My statistics professor in college ...
A dawg in college? What'll we see next?!
(Wait! Sorry sorry: off topic!)
 
Old 02-23-2011, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
9,876 posts, read 6,635,464 times
Reputation: 6281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don9 View Post
Gov Walker is gaining support in WI and throughout the country. There are several other states going down the same path. It's the unions that are losing support across the country.

48% Back GOP Governor in Wisconsin Spat, 38% Side With Unions
Don,

You love to claim polls are BS, but cite another from an organization (Rasmussen) that is generally known to be biased towards GOP talking points? I guess polls are only valid if they confirm your own ideological biases!

Phony baloney poll boosts Walker over unions | Uppity Wisconsin
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