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Old 02-24-2011, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
425 posts, read 1,730,138 times
Reputation: 300

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarawayDJ View Post
Well, the beauty of a democracy is this. If the WI GOP and governor go wild with their agenda, they'll be on the outside looking in before they know it. If you describe things accurately, voters will revolt in 2012. Wouldn't be the first time a party got ahead of themselves and got punished for it.
The beauty of democracy is the people who are out protesting this crap right now (9 pm CST and it's 30 degrees outside) peacefully. Just because someone was elected, doesn't mean the people have to sit down and take it. Also, he was just elected, so Wisconsin will have four years with him, unless he is recalled (which they are talking about doing, but who knows if that will happen).

 
Old 02-24-2011, 08:30 PM
 
5,113 posts, read 4,953,232 times
Reputation: 1732
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladoll View Post
The beauty of democracy is the people who are out protesting this crap right now (9 pm CST and it's 30 degrees outside) peacefully. Just because someone was elected, doesn't mean the people have to sit down and take it. Also, he was just elected, so Wisconsin will have four years with him, unless he is recalled (which they are talking about doing, but who knows if that will happen).
You don't get it do you. Wisconsin just voted in 60% republican control in the assembly, 60% control in the senate and a republican governor. The governor ran on exactly what he is doing and that's why the majority of Wisconsin citizens voted Walker and the other republicans in. You have been watching liberal propaganda media if you think any of this is not true. The only talk about recall and all the protests are from the liberal union bosses and workers and many outside help from other liberal activist groups and big unions who are scared as hell that they will lose this mega power they’ve held for decades.
Wake-up and stop smelling the kool-aid

The democrat senators that left the state because they didn’t want the bill voted on are idiots and cowards and deserve to be impeached. What do you think the liberal media would say if a republican elected officials did this in any states or federal government ... we would never hear the end of it ... what do they do about the democrat politicians? They support them! This is a double standard and total BS and embarrassing to our nation.
 
Old 02-24-2011, 11:00 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
425 posts, read 1,730,138 times
Reputation: 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don9 View Post
You don't get it do you. Wisconsin just voted in 60% republican control in the assembly, 60% control in the senate and a republican governor. The governor ran on exactly what he is doing and that's why the majority of Wisconsin citizens voted Walker and the other republicans in. You have been watching liberal propaganda media if you think any of this is not true. The only talk about recall and all the protests are from the liberal union bosses and workers and many outside help from other liberal activist groups and big unions who are scared as hell that they will lose this mega power they’ve held for decades.
Wake-up and stop smelling the kool-aid

The democrat senators that left the state because they didn’t want the bill voted on are idiots and cowards and deserve to be impeached. What do you think the liberal media would say if a republican elected officials did this in any states or federal government ... we would never hear the end of it ... what do they do about the democrat politicians? They support them! This is a double standard and total BS and embarrassing to our nation.
You don't get it - it was below 60% for governor, THAT'S for sure.

And I have already said things that refuted what you are saying and it's not my problem you can't read. I'm not going to repeat myself.
 
Old 02-25-2011, 06:25 AM
 
5,113 posts, read 4,953,232 times
Reputation: 1732
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladoll View Post
You don't get it - it was below 60% for governor, THAT'S for sure.

And I have already said things that refuted what you are saying and it's not my problem you can't read. I'm not going to repeat myself.
I didn't say Walker won by 60%, it was a 52% to 46% win which is clearly more than half the voters.
 
Old 02-25-2011, 07:12 AM
 
7,150 posts, read 8,799,885 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don9 View Post
... The governor ran on exactly what he is doing and that's why the majority of Wisconsin citizens voted Walker and the other republicans in. You have been watching liberal propaganda media if you think any of this is not true. The only talk about recall and all the protests are from the liberal union bosses and workers and many outside help from other liberal activist groups and big unions who are scared as hell that they will lose this mega power they’ve held for decades.
Wake-up and stop smelling the kool-aid
Actually, Walker ran on, and was voted in on, his campaign to achieve fiscal stability -- including cutting expenses -- including public worker benefits. He did NOT run on, nor was he voted in to, bust the unions. The unions agreed to participate. The Governor is unwilling unless the CBA power is taken away. Wisconsin was the first state in the union to vote in collective bargaining by public worker unions -- in 1959. It has been a pretty liberal state all these years -- and quite pro-union. It remains so. However, WI, along with many states facing fiscal challenges, turned to a Republican Governor and legislature because they liked their message with respect to stabilizing and solving debt and deficit. The electorate is NOT overwhelmingly happy with Walker at this time. They did NOT vote him in to create this distraction from solving the problems of the state. Read the stats and you'll see that WI is actually in better shape than most states, to begin with. They don't want this fight. They want problems solved, not created.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don9 View Post
The democrat senators that left the state because they didn’t want the bill voted on are idiots and cowards and deserve to be impeached. What do you think the liberal media would say if a republican elected officials did this in any states or federal government ... we would never hear the end of it ... what do they do about the democrat politicians? They support them! This is a double standard and total BS and embarrassing to our nation.
We're NOT hearing the end of it with the Democrats, either.
 
Old 02-25-2011, 08:29 AM
 
7,150 posts, read 8,799,885 times
Reputation: 3806
For anyone actually interested in the foundational issue of this controversy, here are a couple of more perspectives. First is a piece from Witchita, KS that discusses the WI debate and uses California as a primary citation ... interesting it says nothing about Kansas!:
Commentary: There are lessons to learn from Wisconsin - KansasCity.com (http://www.kansascity.com/2011/02/24/2679138/commentary-there-are-lessons-to.html - broken link)

But particularly interesting -- especially to the conservatives posting here who are raising a cry of "foul!" with regard to liberal biased reporting and opining -- is this [non-liberal] piece from Michigan, which addresses the realities of how public unions use taxpayer dollars to subsidize [mostly Democratic] election support. And this goes to the very dynamic that I have been trying to point to as healthy for America. It may seem blatantly unfair that public unions force the general populace to support liberal election agenda in this mechanism -- but here is why it is critical for the health of our capitalist system, regardless of whether you support liberal views: to have a healthy capitalist economy, we cannot allow a one-party or single-philosophy system control. Big money overwhelmingly goes to conservative Republicans. With that money they can buy any public support and politics they want. (Study the Koch brothers role in the WI election and current union busting.) You don't have to love or agree with union activities and bargaining to recognize that without such balancing influence, capitalism would become total oligarchy -- favoring only the very very few ultra-powerfully wealthy. This scenario would not serve small business. If you value the free system of opportunity that this country is theoretically founded to be, you need to recognize that, in the absence of any other mechanism to challenge the threat of oligarchy. Other than the top 1% or so, ALL the rest of us would serve our masters. And if any of you think for one second that any of those 1% would have any concern for your welfare or upward mobility, history shows that fantasy entirely mistaken throughout the ages.

Wisconsin gov's agenda won't work here | detnews.com | The Detroit News

So, you don't like the union contracts? Work to adjust them.
You don't like union liberalism? Study history and imagine the alternative.

I do NOT endorse the union compensation contracts that are draining our public funds. I agree entirely with renegotiating as necessary ALL pay, retirement, medical, etc. It is a piece of the puzzle. What I say absolutely comes first, however, is demanding that the wealthiest Americans and corporations pay for the blessings they enjoy through the labor and participation of all citizens that make up our great country. As the super-wealthy benefit outrageously, they should pay in great measure -- not weasel out of paying taxes and through hiding their wealth overseas, etc.

And the elite MUST be challenged at all times to play safe and fair with all our welfare and our individual opportunities -- in ALL their activities.
 
Old 02-25-2011, 08:37 AM
 
Location: GLAMA
16,584 posts, read 33,762,814 times
Reputation: 16833
I remember when the City of Vernon Fire Department went on strike. I, and many others, crossed those lines to man their equipment.

That's what I think of the public sector striking.
 
Old 02-25-2011, 09:01 AM
 
7,150 posts, read 8,799,885 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fontucky View Post
I remember when the City of Vernon Fire Department went on strike. I, and many others, crossed those lines to man their equipment.

That's what I think of the public sector striking.
Sure. Who doesn't?
Now think about living in a world of nothing but Wal-Mart, Bank America, Exxon, and the Koch brothers. No [quality] choices. No concern for public safety. No willingness to support independent, individual opportunity.

Don't want critical emergency services striking?
Good idea.
Introduce legislation to ban it and tie bargaining for critical services to non-critical services ... in other words, police and fire can't walk out, but other municipal services (such as garbage collection or bus service) can suffer protest.

If you value your freedom to be liberal or conservative, employee or entrepreneur, renter or landlord -- find a way to balance the special interests of the super-elite. Come up with something better than union influence and I'm sure most folks would love it ... I would.
 
Old 02-25-2011, 09:06 AM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 31,475,774 times
Reputation: 29071
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
What I say absolutely comes first, however, is demanding that the wealthiest Americans and corporations pay for the blessings they enjoy through the labor and participation of all citizens that make up our great country. As the super-wealthy benefit outrageously, they should pay in great measure -- not weasel out of paying taxes and through hiding their wealth overseas, etc.

And the elite MUST be challenged at all times to play safe and fair with all our welfare and our individual opportunities -- in ALL their activities.
Yes!
 
Old 02-25-2011, 09:13 AM
 
Location: GLAMA
16,584 posts, read 33,762,814 times
Reputation: 16833
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
in other words, police and fire can't walk out, but other municipal services (such as garbage collection or bus service) can suffer protest.
Not those guys. I consider their services as vital to the good of the public as the emergency services.

If the typing pool drones (do they have those anymore?) or the DMV gorillas want to walk, let 'em.
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