U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > California
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 02-25-2011, 09:20 AM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 31,506,246 times
Reputation: 29081

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fontucky View Post
Not those guys. I consider their services as vital to the good of the public as the emergency services.

If the typing pool drones (do they have those anymore?) or the DMV gorillas want to walk, let 'em.
Technically, they can't. They have no-strike clauses in their contracts. All they can do is put on their grape shirts and howl outside the Capitol.

 
Old 02-25-2011, 09:42 AM
 
7,150 posts, read 8,807,705 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fontucky View Post
Not those guys. I consider their services as vital to the good of the public as the emergency services.

If the typing pool drones (do they have those anymore?) or the DMV gorillas want to walk, let 'em.
Those services (garbage / transportation) certainly are vital to the good of the public ... but not hardly the same as police and fire. Somewhere in the system there have to be 'pressure points' ... no one likes it .... everyone suffers -- short-term ... but it is vital to the long-term health of our system to have protest and negotiations and balanced agendas. Creative minds, such as yours , can come up with other ways to achieve a strong America, I'm sure. Go for it. But pretty please don't turn us all over to the Koch bros. Pretty pretty please
 
Old 02-25-2011, 09:53 AM
 
Location: GLAMA
16,584 posts, read 33,789,124 times
Reputation: 16833
The Koch brothers are certainly getting a lot of attention from the Left these days. I fully supported their doomed effort to suspend AB 32 until the employment situation was rosier. Alas...
 
Old 02-25-2011, 10:50 AM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,439 posts, read 22,376,391 times
Reputation: 8625
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Sure. Who doesn't?
Now think about living in a world of nothing but Wal-Mart, Bank America, Exxon, and the Koch brothers. No [quality] choices. No concern for public safety. No willingness to support independent, individual opportunity.

Don't want critical emergency services striking?
Good idea.
Introduce legislation to ban it and tie bargaining for critical services to non-critical services ... in other words, police and fire can't walk out, but other municipal services (such as garbage collection or bus service) can suffer protest.

If you value your freedom to be liberal or conservative, employee or entrepreneur, renter or landlord -- find a way to balance the special interests of the super-elite. Come up with something better than union influence and I'm sure most folks would love it ... I would.
Exactly well put!
 
Old 02-25-2011, 11:11 AM
 
5,113 posts, read 4,957,603 times
Reputation: 1732
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Actually, Walker ran on, and was voted in on, his campaign to achieve fiscal stability -- including cutting expenses -- including public worker benefits. He did NOT run on, nor was he voted in to, bust the unions. The unions agreed to participate. The Governor is unwilling unless the CBA power is taken away. Wisconsin was the first state in the union to vote in collective bargaining by public worker unions -- in 1959. It has been a pretty liberal state all these years -- and quite pro-union. It remains so. However, WI, along with many states facing fiscal challenges, turned to a Republican Governor and legislature because they liked their message with respect to stabilizing and solving debt and deficit. The electorate is NOT overwhelmingly happy with Walker at this time. They did NOT vote him in to create this distraction from solving the problems of the state. Read the stats and you'll see that WI is actually in better shape than most states, to begin with. They don't want this fight. They want problems solved, not created.



We're NOT hearing the end of it with the Democrats, either.
You are wrong!

Scott Walker's Views on Collective Bargaining No Surprise

Poll: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker Winning Labor, Budget Fight

Poll: Voters thoughts on Wisconsin events
 
Old 02-25-2011, 11:21 AM
 
2,093 posts, read 3,937,942 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
I rarely agree with O'Reilly, but he poses some good questions here:
Insurrection in Wisconsin - FoxNews.com

Here's another perspective from USA Today.
Wisconsin is 'ground zero' for battle over unions - USATODAY.com

So many problems, so few solutions that arent painful.
Yes. It can happen. If the public unions here can learn that is going on in Wisconsin, they'll avoid going down that route and bargain in good conscience.
 
Old 02-25-2011, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Prague
1,993 posts, read 2,971,173 times
Reputation: 2633
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fontucky View Post
The Koch brothers are certainly getting a lot of attention from the Left these days. I fully supported their doomed effort to suspend AB 32 until the employment situation was rosier. Alas...
That reminds me of another thing that drives me nuts. I hate how one party will point to the donations to another party and actually find it within themselves to complain with a straight face. You know, as if they get no donations from special interest groups, corporations, unions, and so on. The Koch brothers could be viewed as the conservative equivalent to George Soros. They target their efforts more narrowly though. GE is this administrations Halliburton...although a little more audacity is involved.

When I sit back and watch people actually behave as if only the other side does these things, I begin to think humanity is doomed. I begin to wonder if we have millions of people running around out there subjected to parental or academic brainwashing. The hypocrisy is over the top. Perhaps the best current example of hypocrisy was the move to call for civility following the Giffords shooting. I haven't heard a single one of the people who stood up and called for civility condemn the distasteful signs and rhetoric on display in WI now. You have pictures of crosshairs over the governor, hitler comparisons, and so on. Of course, Fox shows this. They wouldn't show this if it were a Tea Party gathering, but they will this. The other networks are mostly the opposite. They'll cover the Tea Party demonstrations in great detail, but somehow not manage to get a single vile sign on film in WI. But the brainwashed fools out there will still insist only one party does this stuff.
 
Old 02-25-2011, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,476 posts, read 17,455,110 times
Reputation: 4321
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Big money overwhelmingly goes to conservative Republicans. With that money they can buy any public support and politics they want.
This is entirely inaccurate, big money goes to whoever is in power. Large corporations can get what they want from both Democrats and Republicans, they just have to package it differently.

The politics of big money: Comparing Democratic vs Republican candidates on campaign funds - by David Pipkin - Helium


Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
So, you don't like the union contracts? Work to adjust them.
You don't like union liberalism? Study history and imagine the alternative.
Once again conflating private and public unions and yapping about corporations, that is all you guys keep doing. Address the real issues already.

In terms of imagining what its like to have a non-union public work-force, not to hard as there are plenty of examples across country.
 
Old 02-25-2011, 11:32 AM
 
7,150 posts, read 8,807,705 times
Reputation: 3806
Don ... if you want to cite right-wing sources, at least make them credible ones ... and why am I not surprised that you turn to FOX / Rasmussen for your news and polling? ...

The Weekly Standard: (from Wikipedia)
The Weekly Standard is an American neoconservative[1][2][3][4] opinion magazine[5] published 48 times per year. Its founding publisher, News Corporation, debuted the title September 18, 1995. Currently edited by founder William Kristol and Fred Barnes, the Standard has been described as a "redoubt of neoconservatism" and as "the neo-con bible".[6][7] Many of the magazine's articles are written by members of conservative think tanks located in Washington, D.C.: the American Enterprise Institute, the Ethics and Public Policy Center, the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, and the Hudson Institute.

FOX? No need to cite "re[fudiation]s"
Rasmussen follies:
Rasmussen Poll on Wisconsin Dispute May Be Biased - NYTimes.com
Rasmussen's Polling Stirs Bias Debate
and this isn't a new problem:
Why it's increasingly difficult*to take Rasmussen polls seriously | Media Matters for America (http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200907070015 - broken link)

As for the US News Report: the article you linked cites:
"For the moment, however, the core issue of the fight that has paralyzed the state government and led to protesters occupying the state capitol building--the idea that the power of public employee unions to engage in collective bargaining be limited to wage and benefit issues--Wisconsin voters break with the governor, 54 percent to 41 percent."
 
Old 02-25-2011, 11:39 AM
 
5,113 posts, read 4,957,603 times
Reputation: 1732
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Don ... if you want to cite right-wing sources, at least make them credible ones ... and why am I not surprised that you turn to FOX / Rasmussen for your news and polling? ...

The Weekly Standard: (from Wikipedia)
The Weekly Standard is an American neoconservative[1][2][3][4] opinion magazine[5] published 48 times per year. Its founding publisher, News Corporation, debuted the title September 18, 1995. Currently edited by founder William Kristol and Fred Barnes, the Standard has been described as a "redoubt of neoconservatism" and as "the neo-con bible".[6][7] Many of the magazine's articles are written by members of conservative think tanks located in Washington, D.C.: the American Enterprise Institute, the Ethics and Public Policy Center, the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, and the Hudson Institute.

FOX? No need to cite "re[fudiation]s"
Rasmussen follies:
Rasmussen Poll on Wisconsin Dispute May Be Biased - NYTimes.com
Rasmussen's Polling Stirs Bias Debate
and this isn't a new problem:
Why it's increasingly difficult*to take Rasmussen polls seriously | Media Matters for America (http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200907070015 - broken link)

As for the US News Report: the article you linked cites:
"For the moment, however, the core issue of the fight that has paralyzed the state government and led to protesters occupying the state capitol building--the idea that the power of public employee unions to engage in collective bargaining be limited to wage and benefit issues--Wisconsin voters break with the governor, 54 percent to 41 percent."
Instead of demonizing the news source ... try discrediting the content
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > California
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top